Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(November 2004)

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Subject: Re: mailing with sendmail binary / errors
From: lee <davislee @ btinternet . com>
Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2004 08:56:06 +0000
To: list-managers @ greatcircle . com
In-reply-to: <1099885042 . 2393 . 2565 . camel @ quickdraw . squawk . com>
References: <418A6C87 . 2070600 @ btinternet . com> <20041104194912 . GA16075 @ eskimo . com> <418A918A . 6010300 @ btinternet . com> <1099843855 . 2393 . 2141 . camel @ quickdraw . squawk . com> <418E8BE9 . 5010406 @ btinternet . com> <1099885042 . 2393 . 2565 . camel @ quickdraw . squawk . com>
User-agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.7.3 (Windows/20040803)

Just a few more thoughts on this, as I move increasingly towards giving up.
I need someone who understands php and sendmail, and is willing to look at the 2 unmodified mailgust (mlm) files below with reference to all this.       (normally a php file) ( " " " )

Please see * below for my comments.

Nick Simicich wrote:

Return-path is a header that is set by the MTA (i.e., sendmail)
as part of the final delivery and it is simply a conventional way to
preserve the RFC821 envelope address.  Setting it before you resend
something is likely useless.  It is a way to make this visible to the
mail recipient and will otherwise likely be ignored.
* Ok, I understand and appreciate this. I have abandoned my blind coding attempts to change the return-path header within mailgust.

Did you understand what I wrote?  Please read RFC821 - there are newer
ones, but that one is on point here.  When you understand that there is
a MAIL FROM and a RCPT TO address, then consider that what you put in
the mail header has nothing to do with the delivery of the mail.
* I've tried to read up in some relevant places, but I fail to understand much of it.

(With the exception of using the -t option to sendmail - when you do
that, sendmail parses the header, once, and fills in the envelope.)
* Are things like -f and -t sendmail arguments which I have read quite a lot about? Presumably these would be / are coded somewhere in the mailgust php code. If you mean instead that I have to set something up in sendmail I don't understand anyway how that would work for a specific address or program. It sounds to me like an action to impact on how sendmail works generally.

There is an envelope.  The envelope is how one sendmail talks to
another - the "MAIL FROM:<your list bounce address>" "RCPT TO:<someone
getting your list mail."

* Ok; It is this 'list bounce address' I am trying and wanting / needing to set.

Return-Path might be parsed by -t from sendmail, (I have no way of testing this) but it seems wrong headed to do that.
* Would this be due to the mlm coding or a sendmail options setting? Looking through the mailgust sendcron.php and gorum/zmail.php files shows things like -f but not -t. Please bear in mind again I have no understanding of php and very little understanding of unix commands.

If you have the ability to set up scripting, you have the ability to get
an interactive shell on your web host.   You just don't know how. :-)
* I still believe I don't have shell access to my hosting without specifically asking for it or getting my host to do it.

If you are calling sendmail directly to forward the e-mail that is being generated or forwarded by mailgust, you need to override the origin. Using the owner- magic might work. Specifying what you want as an argument to sendmail is more likely to work.

* ok sure;   by owner- magic do you mean including an alias of the form:
list-owner: xyz @
abc .
com   ?
From what I have read, the style of my aliases will not work with this. The info I have read implies this works with an 'include' alias and a file of addresses.
My aliases follow either the form:
list @
abc .
com: path_to_mlm_cron_file
list @
abc .
com: list_mailbox, path_to_mlm_cron_file

<> -fname Sets the name of the ``from'' person (i.e., the envelope sender
of the mail). This address may also be used in the From: header
if that header is missing during initial submission. The enve-
lope sender address is used as the recipient for delivery status
notifications and may also appear in a Return-Path: header. -f
should only be used by ``trusted'' users (normally root, daemon,
and network) or if the person you are trying to become is the
same as the person you are. Otherwise, an X-Authentication-
Warning header will be added to the message.

* ok sure, but again, where and how to do this? In 1 or more mlm files?
Again, the simple answer is that if you specify the address you want the bounces to go to, then you don't need to worry.

* yes, that's totally what I want to do !!

Thanks again,

*The latest fine-tuning of * LEE'S FREE MUSIC STATION <> *means
even bigger hits, pop and dance - less fillers than ever before*

scanned by lee's virus software. outbound message found to be clean.

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