Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(November 2004)

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Subject: Re: mailing with sendmail binary / errors
From: Jim Osborn <jimo @ eskimo . com>
Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2004 11:49:12 -0800
To: list-managers @ greatcircle . com
In-reply-to: <418A6C87 . 2070600 @ btinternet . com>
Mail-followup-to: list-managers @ greatcircle . com
References: <418A6C87 . 2070600 @ btinternet . com>
User-agent: Mutt/1.4i

On Thu, Nov 04, 2004 at  5:53:11PM +0000, lee wrote:
> I'm running a mailing list manager using the sendmail binary for 
> outgoing mail, because smtp is too restricted to make the 300+ 
> zubscriber base workable.
> Trouble is, when people mail the list they get a 'personal' mail 
> delivery error from the mail daemon if there happen to be any dead or 
> over quota addresses on the list at that time. Using smtp (on smaller 
> lists) seems not to do this.

Others here can probably quote the RFCs on this better than me, but I'll
offer my limited opinion.  First, those errors you mention should never
go to the message author, but should instead go to the envelope sender,
or return-path, which should be the MLM.  I don't know if this is a
sendmail/smtp issue or just an issue with your MLM.  Then again, there
are plenty of sites that misdirect DSNs even with the MLM set up right.

> So, is there a specific request I can send to the hosting support to get 
> these mail delivery errors specifically directed to an admin address? 
> ie, 'if a delivery error is generated when someone has originally mailed 
> to xyzlist then forward to admin @
 xyz rather than the original sender' ....

Here's a sampling of the headers this list, list-managers, emits:

	From list-managers-owner @
 greatcircle .
 com  Thu Nov  4 10:00:21 2004
	Return-Path: <list-managers-owner @
 greatcircle .
	X-Original-To: list-managers @
 greatcircle .
	Message-ID: <418A6C87 .
 2070600 @
 btinternet .
	Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 17:53:11 +0000
	From: lee <davislee @
 btinternet .
	To: list-managers @
 greatcircle .
	Subject: mailing with sendmail binary / errors
	Sender: list-managers-owner @
 greatcircle .

A site would have to be really misconfigured to send DSNs to the From:
address with all that info at hand.  You might check to see what your
current MLM is sending in the way of headers.

> I'm asking here before contacting the host in case any of you have tried 
> this before and found it definitely is / is not possible to set up.

I've never tried rolling my own MLM, but have used Majordomo, ListServe,
and for the last ten years or so, SmartList.  They've all been hosted
by my ISP, so I haven't personally configured this aspect of a MLM; 
SmartList uses something called "flist" to deliver the mail; it may
go through sendmail on its way, but I don't know, and I don't think
that's relevant to your question.

The ultimate answer to your last question is: yes, it is definitely
possible to set up a MLM to encourage DSNs to go to the MLM, not the
message author.


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