Great Circle Associates List-Managers
(December 1996)

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Subject: Re: Lyris Feedback
From: Mike Nolan <nolan @ celery . tssi . com>
Date: Sun, 1 Dec 1996 22:47:28 -0600 (CST)
To: jcook @ netcom . com (James Cook)
In-reply-to: <Pine . 3 . 89 . 9612011939 . A9287-0100000 @ netcom> from "James Cook" at Dec 1, 96 08:11:07 pm
Reply-to: nolan @ tssi . com

> On Sun, 1 Dec 1996, Mike Nolan wrote:
> > > I thought I'd report back on some changes we're going to make to 
> > > Lyris as a result of the feedback from this list.
> > 
> > Since this is a a commercial product and you are using this list as a test 
> > market without a beta agreement, where do we send our consulting fee 
> > invoices to?  
> This is no test market. This is an exchange of ideas about software 
> design. We are the beneficiaires of any smart changes which occur as a 
> result.

We're also the primary market for the product, and at least initially
the material on Lyris struck me as a whole lot more like marketing than
an 'exchange of ideas.' 
> He then posted a liberal amount of detail lacking prior thereto, and 
> proceeded to get flamed like hell. I think all list managers do 
> themselves a real disservice by acting like that. 

Considering that his early posts were rather haughty (we do it THIS way
because that's the RIGHT way, etc.), I thought the flames were a too acidic
(as was my comment above) but at least somewhat deserved.  It became an 
exchange of ideas only afterwards.  I'm glad to to see that the developers 
are taking at least SOME of our feedback to heart, perhaps their marketers 
will, too.  Hopefully the discussion will continue, and Lyris will benefit 
from it.

List managers are probably bad examples of net citizens, which is ironic
considering we tend to spend an inordinate amount of time convincing others
to be good examples.  We all tend to sermonize, and not many of us are net 
gods, except perhaps in our own minds.

I posted my note because I thought the tone of the announcement that he
sent out still smelled of 'marketing hype', but I've been running a fever
since Wednesday so I'm probably cranky as hell right now.

As I said in another post, I don't see myself as a qualified prospect for
the product, because I don't have a revenue stream from my lists to support 
the cost.  Given that it took me MONTHS to get my current list software to
the state I wanted it, a 30 day 'free trial' isn't much of a trial at all,
IMHO.  I might, if I thought I had the time and other resources, try out the 
crippled edition at some time in the future, though.
Mike Nolan

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