From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Dec 14 11:33:40 2003 Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 74F7052CE2 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 11:33:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.0.82] (81-178-230-49.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.230.49]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 912604C002A8 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 19:33:25 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation From: Andrew Beverley To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Simplelists.com Message-Id: <1071430282.12440.43.camel@andylap.andybev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.0 Date: 14 Dec 2003 19:31:22 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200312/1 X-Sequence-Number: 1731 Hi list, I'm looking to get some customisation of MHonArc done professionally. The work would involve adding an option to a resource file, whereby the amount of disk space that an archive occupied could be limited. It would function similar to the MAXSIZE option, where old messages are removed to make way for new ones, but obviously would work as a function of disk space rather than number of messages. I was wondering whether any list managers would also find such a facility useful, and would they be prepared to share the development cost, or whether anyone has any better ideas on how to solve this problem. Thanks, Andy Beverley From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Dec 14 13:07:39 2003 Received: from kanga.nu (kanga.nu [157.22.12.214]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A23D352C3B for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:07:36 -0800 (PST) Delivery-date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:07:36 -0800 Received: from dhcp-66-212-193-197.myeastern.com ([66.212.193.197]:61727 helo=yabbie) by kanga.nu with asmtp (Exim 4.22 #1 (Debian)) id 1AVdSi-0006OM-1x; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 13:07:36 -0800 Received: from yabbie ([127.0.0.1] helo=kanga.nu) by yabbie with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1AVdSh-00045K-00; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:07:35 -0500 To: Andrew Beverley Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation In-Reply-To: Message from Andrew Beverley of "14 Dec 2003 19:31:22 GMT." <1071430282.12440.43.camel@andylap.andybev.com> References: <1071430282.12440.43.camel@andylap.andybev.com> X-face: ?^_yw@fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2003 16:07:35 -0500 Message-ID: <15705.1071436055@kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence X-Archive-Number: 200312/2 X-Sequence-Number: 1732 On 14 Dec 2003 19:31:22 +0000 Andrew Beverley wrote: > I'm looking to get some customisation of MHonArc done professionally. This doesn't inherently need a modification to MHonArc. Just wrap your call to MHonArc in a script which runs `du` against the target directory, adds in the computed size of the current message and then does The Right Thing. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Sun Dec 14 14:54:37 2003 Received: from xuxa.iecc.com (xuxa.iecc.com [208.31.42.42]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 692A152508 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 2003 14:54:34 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 18625 invoked by uid 100); 14 Dec 2003 22:54:32 -0000 Date: 14 Dec 2003 22:54:32 -0000 Message-ID: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> From: johnl@iecc.com (John R. Levine) To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation Newsgroups: iecc.lists.list-managers In-Reply-To: <1071430282.12440.43.camel@andylap.andybev.com> Organization: I.E.C.C., Trumansburg NY USA Cc: X-Archive-Number: 200312/3 X-Sequence-Number: 1733 >I'm looking to get some customisation of MHonArc done professionally. >The work would involve adding an option to a resource file, whereby the >amount of disk space that an archive occupied could be limited. It would >function similar to the MAXSIZE option, where old messages are removed >to make way for new ones, but obviously would work as a function of disk >space rather than number of messages. If I were you, I'd buy a bigger disk. Say it costs $500 to get your software adjusted which would be pretty cheap. For that price, you could easily get 120GB of mirrored disk in a hot swap enclosure, probably 200GB if you chose your parts carefully.. Unless people are mailing around videos on your lists, that's an awful lot of mail messages. -- John R. Levine, IECC, POB 727, Trumansburg NY 14886 +1 607 330 5711 johnl@iecc.com, Village Trustee and Sewer Commissioner, http://iecc.com/johnl, Member, Provisional board, Coalition Against Unsolicited Commercial E-mail From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Dec 15 13:42:09 2003 Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E495A52048 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 13:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192.168.0.82 (81-178-230-49.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.230.49]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 621634C00324; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:41:28 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation From: Andrew Beverley To: "John R. Levine" Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> References: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Simplelists.com Message-Id: <1071524321.6159.3.camel@andylap.andybev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4-5mdk Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 21:38:41 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200312/4 X-Sequence-Number: 1734 On Sun, 2003-12-14 at 22:54, John R. Levine wrote: > >I'm looking to get some customisation of MHonArc done professionally. > >The work would involve adding an option to a resource file, whereby the > >amount of disk space that an archive occupied could be limited. It would > >function similar to the MAXSIZE option, where old messages are removed > >to make way for new ones, but obviously would work as a function of disk > >space rather than number of messages. > > If I were you, I'd buy a bigger disk. Say it costs $500 to get your > software adjusted which would be pretty cheap. For that price, you > could easily get 120GB of mirrored disk in a hot swap enclosure, > probably 200GB if you chose your parts carefully.. Unless people are > mailing around videos on your lists, that's an awful lot of mail > messages. Thanks for the suggestion, and good point! The thing is I'm running on a remote dedicated server, so it's not quite so easy to upgrade the drive. Also, it's a question of cost of bandwidth use - the more disk space that archives use, the chances are the more bandwidth will be used looking at them. From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Dec 15 14:11:01 2003 Received: from bolt.sonic.net (bolt.sonic.net [208.201.242.18]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E81B6522F6 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from satellite.vo.cnchost.com (IDENT:root@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by bolt.sonic.net (8.12.10/8.12.1) with ESMTP id hBFMAvQS022703 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:10:58 -0800 Message-Id: <6.0.0.10.0.20031215135916.0553f8a0@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: inet-list%vo.cnchost.com@127.0.0.1 (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.0.10 (Beta) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:01:57 -0800 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: JC Dill Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation In-Reply-To: <1071524321.6159.3.camel@andylap.andybev.com> References: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Archive-Number: 200312/5 X-Sequence-Number: 1735 At 01:38 PM 12/15/2003, Andrew Beverley wrote: >Also, it's a question of cost of bandwidth use - the more disk space >that archives use, the chances are the more bandwidth will be used >looking at them. If someone can't find the answer in the archives and they then send a message to your list (which triggers how many on-list replies), how much bandwidth does *that* take? IME, as long as your archives are *easy* to search, searching archives takes less bandwidth and gets the visitor the answer faster, which makes your list more effective for you and your visitor. jc From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Dec 15 14:24:02 2003 Received: from pengo.systems.pipex.net (pengo.systems.pipex.net [62.241.160.193]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB645523DA for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:23:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from 192.168.0.82 (81-178-230-49.dsl.pipex.com [81.178.230.49]) by pengo.systems.pipex.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 712844C00279; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:23:57 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation From: Andrew Beverley To: JC Dill Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.10.0.20031215135916.0553f8a0@127.0.0.1> References: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> <6.0.0.10.0.20031215135916.0553f8a0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Simplelists.com Message-Id: <1071526872.6158.7.camel@andylap.andybev.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.4-5mdk Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 22:21:13 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200312/6 X-Sequence-Number: 1736 On Mon, 2003-12-15 at 22:01, JC Dill wrote: > At 01:38 PM 12/15/2003, Andrew Beverley wrote: > > >Also, it's a question of cost of bandwidth use - the more disk space > >that archives use, the chances are the more bandwidth will be used > >looking at them. > > If someone can't find the answer in the archives and they then send a > message to your list (which triggers how many on-list replies), how much > bandwidth does *that* take? > > IME, as long as your archives are *easy* to search, searching archives > takes less bandwidth and gets the visitor the answer faster, which makes > your list more effective for you and your visitor. I agree, and that would certainly be the case if I managed the actual lists. As it is, I provide list hosting and try and charge as fairly as possible - that includes charging for disk space they use on my server and bandwidth used sending the messages. So the decision to only keep limited archives would be the choice of the end user. Andy From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Dec 15 14:33:47 2003 Received: from mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu (brahma.cs.utah.edu [155.99.198.200]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEC6E52451 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 14:32:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs.utah.edu (spitfire.cs.utah.edu [155.98.65.165]) by mail-svr1.cs.utah.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C9DD346E0 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:32:53 -0700 (MST) Message-ID: <3FDE3694.6070404@cs.utah.edu> Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 15:32:52 -0700 From: "Mark J. Bradakis" Organization: U of U School of Computing User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation References: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> <6.0.0.10.0.20031215135916.0553f8a0@127.0.0.1> In-Reply-To: <6.0.0.10.0.20031215135916.0553f8a0@127.0.0.1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Archive-Number: 200312/7 X-Sequence-Number: 1737 > IME, as long as your archives are *easy* to search, searching > archives takes less bandwidth and gets the visitor the answer > faster, which makes your list more effective Of course, the more TOFU and deep replies you have, the more disk space, search engine cycles and bandwidth is wasted sending N uneccessary copies of search hits which are really all the same. mjb. ---- A good friend will come bail you out of jail... but a true friend will be sitting next to you saying "Boy, that was fun!" From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Dec 15 17:46:53 2003 Received: from claude.jabberwocky.com (walrus.ne.client2.attbi.com [24.60.132.70]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A7935292F for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:46:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from dshaw@localhost) by claude.jabberwocky.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) id hBG1i5d27648 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:05 -0500 Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:44:05 -0500 From: David Shaw To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: What to do with archives when list is going away? Message-ID: <20031216014405.GA26646@jabberwocky.com> Mail-Followup-To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-PGP-Key: 99242560 / 7D92 FD31 3AB6 F373 4CC5 9CA1 DB69 8D71 9924 2560 X-Request-PGP: http://www.jabberwocky.com/david/keys.asc X-Phase-Of-Moon: The Moon is Waning Gibbous (61% of Full) User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.5i X-Archive-Number: 200312/8 X-Sequence-Number: 1738 For the past few years, I've run a list about the late 60's play (and later movie) "Hair". Over time, the list grew and shrank as different theater groups performed and discussed the play. The past year or so has shown a steady decline in membership and participation, and we're now at the stage of the few remaining posts being of the "where did everyone go?" variety. It's sad, but it happens eventually. Anyway, I've decided to close down the list. The question arises what to do with 6-odd years of list archives. For someone putting on the play Hair, these are a fairly valuable resource - posts from the original cast, posts from people in touch with the authors, the original producer, and so on. My question is, does anyone have any pointers to legal references as to what I am permitted to do with these archives? I did some research and the magic phrase "compilation copyright" came up, but if someone here has already dealt with a similar situation, I'd really appreciate any information you have. Thanks, David From list-managers-owner@greatcircle.com Mon Dec 15 19:25:22 2003 Received: from tom.iecc.com (tom.iecc.com [208.31.42.38]) by mycroft.greatcircle.com (Postfix) with SMTP id B849C51250 for ; Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:25:14 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 26717 invoked from network); 16 Dec 2003 03:25:13 -0000 Received: (ofmipd 127.0.0.1); 16 Dec 2003 03:24:51 -0000 Date: 15 Dec 2003 22:25:13 -0500 Message-ID: From: "John R Levine" To: "Andrew Beverley" Cc: "list-managers@greatcircle.com" Subject: Re: Looking to share cost for Mhonarc customisation In-Reply-To: <1071524321.6159.3.camel@andylap.andybev.com> References: <20031214225432.18624.qmail@xuxa.iecc.com> <1071524321.6159.3.camel@andylap.andybev.com> Cleverness: None detected MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Archive-Number: 200312/9 X-Sequence-Number: 1739 > Thanks for the suggestion, and good point! The thing is I'm running on a > remote dedicated server, so it's not quite so easy to upgrade the drive. > Also, it's a question of cost of bandwidth use - the more disk space > that archives use, the chances are the more bandwidth will be used > looking at them. If you need bandwidth limits, most versions of Linux and BSD have packet filters that can give you bandwidth caps. It sounds like you need to back up a little and figure out what you really want to accomplish. Regards, John Levine, johnl@iecc.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies", Information Superhighwayman wanna-be, http://iecc.com/johnl, Sewer Commissioner "I dropped the toothpaste", said Tom, crestfallenly.